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02 Jan 2006 14:47 | Webmaster | Playstation 3 PS3Today.com | Link to this article 
Tommy Tallarico who review games for G4 and who also has been involved in over 200 game projects in his 15 years in the game biz has made some interesting comments about the PS3 games that are currently in development. After seeing some of the games in action he was clearly impressed with what he saw, stating that the first generation of PS3 games is much more impressive than what we have seen on the Xbox 360 so far[ "Unfortunately I am under strict NDA and cannot mention any titles. The gameplay graphics look a little better than minor... but it more of the way the worlds and environments are being created and built. For example... in Project Gotham racing if you stop on the side of the road and look at a tree... it is basically just two texture maps pasted together in a cross pattern (like games have done for the past 10 years)... but some of the stuff I'm seeing on the PS3 has every element of a tree including branches, leaves, etc... and it all gets affected by the wind as your car passes by... as well as the lighting. Not saying the 360 CAN'T do that... I'm just saying that from what I've seen.... I'm a lot more impressed with the 1st generation PS3 titles compared to the 1st gen 360 titles. "] Add Comment  1 -
Unregistered - nothing new here 01.02.2006 15:08 i think we all saw this comming sin first gen x360 titles were not developed on the full potential of the system.........nothing new here. 2 -
We all know this.Unregistered - Oblivion 01.02.2006 15:30 ^^True words.They havent even scratched the surface of the 360 yet.When the ps3 comes out we'll be seing roughly the same qaulity of graphic on both consoles. Just look at Gears of War.It stands its own against any of the "realtime" ps3 games so far. Most oof are Qs will be answered in a few days at CES. 3 -
Tommy Tallico?Unregistered - Cray 01.02.2006 15:46 Yes. I have seen him on G4. But come on. Do we really need his "expert" advice on next-gen gaming? At least it is an article with an actual name. I hate that this site is scrounging for news. Just give me a release date. 4 -
?????????????Unregistered - ninja0327 01.02.2006 16:02 with the prevoius post about "ps3's problems" and this new post i really don't know what to beleive. 5 -
Unregistered - gamerzg 01.02.2006 16:18 He has actualy had a hands on experiance with the system he is under a NCDA, which is a non-circumvention agreement. Basicly means he can't share any information he has experienced or he can face legal trouble. 6 -
Unregistered - this is for number 4 01.02.2006 16:36 this forum is just for fun,dont believe anyway,util u can see it with your own eyes and hold it with your own hands 99% what we know about the ps3 is simply specilation. since there is still no playable games out. 7 -
More BS by SonyUnregistered - DonkeyDoo 01.02.2006 17:23 Another person supposedly claiming PS3 is better. WHERE is the PROOF? all I hear is words and some real-time BS. Sony must be really worried about something to put out propaganda like this. Show something real like a working PS3 or a playable demo. Until that time all this is BS and just propaganda. I am sure Sony doesn’t have anything to show at CES. They will give you more real-time. They would not even show a working PS3. Which Sony fanboy think they are going to see a playable demo at CES? 8 -
to comment 7Havoc 01.02.2006 17:33 Stop crying, do you really think Sony is going to show more trailers at CES? 9 -
Hmm...Unregistered - Hmm... 01.02.2006 17:59 No.7, can you feel the pressure ? Sh*tting your pants yet sonny boy ? Looks like you are. I mean its a bit silly of accusing Sony of this being propaganda if you look at things Microsoft has done in the past which were a bit...desperate. You seem like another Xflambe fanboy thats in denial that Sonys currently doing very well to 'woo' the crowd. 10 -
Unregistered - Gamer 01.02.2006 18:38 Xbot fanbois in panic mode, cos they know Sony is gonna deliver at CES. I've actualy seen the trees in PGR3 and the guy is right in what he says, it was actualy the first thing I noticed about the game, how bad the trees looked. 11 -
okUnregistered - BK 01.02.2006 18:54 first of all u cant thrust what is based on one persons opinion. he may like eating snail do you? its opiniong based so this really doest resolve anything or show anything to anyone. and stpo with the CES thins. you guys made the same big hype for E3 and all u got were some demos. you really cant say sony will orwill not deliver at CES. are any of you actually going there? i bet not. and stop specualating CES is a few more days away so stop flamng at eachother like fags. and stop the crap with xbots your worse than any xbox fanboy because you are so close minded with all the "hpe ur house burns down cuz ur 360" yet we all no only 4% are affected and microsoft replaces them on the spot. and we all got through the which system is better thing that is also opiniong based and here where i am its a free country and anyone can think what they want. Bring some facts and we'll discuss them but this is just opinion and this can prove absollutely nothing. 12 -
xbox2 and ps3Unregistered - ok 01.02.2006 18:55 ok seriously i know the xbox360 games that came out used like 40% of the console power.ok i know that gears of war looks great.ok i know that ps3 dosent have playable demos. but then i still can compare two games thats not playable and realtime proof gears of war Vs MGS4 Seriously i got both trailer in high def and after like watchin them 100times for me and i repeat for me MGS4 looks better. thats that the rest i dont care. 13 -
12 correctionUnregistered - 12 01.02.2006 18:56 i wanted to say non playable BUT realtime proof :) 14 -
Unregistered - Gamer 01.02.2006 18:58 Hey Xbots, they havent even scratched the surface of the PS3 yet either, or did you forget the system isnt even out yet? not only that but first games (just like X360 games) wont be finished on final devkits you morons, developers dont switch devkits when the game is almost complete, final devkits for PS3 were released in December. 15 -
PS3 IS BETTERbraddog 01.02.2006 18:58 Lately i seen some awesome reviews of xbox360 games, i gotta admit they look cool. But so far what i have seen the, PS3 games will better then the xbox360 first release games out now. Better graphics to the max! 16 -
omgUnregistered - BK 01.02.2006 19:11 none of the things you saw where in game gameplay. they where a demo of the engine. It was a sequence that showed what the in game COULD look like. thing is it was a movie and in a movie everything is predictable but to eliminate lags and stuff their going to need to tone down everything just like how ps2 happened. the first gen xbox 360 titles used less than a mere 20% of the console while a game like MGS4 uses about 75% especially at points with particles and everything flying everywhere (IF thats how in game will be which will not). MS put a lot of time in developing hardware while sony did the opposite and is working on software. and devs have already scratched the surface of both consoles my friend nice try. 17 -
andUnregistered - BK 01.02.2006 19:15 beta dev kits which where 90% as good as the ifnal dev kits were released in the beginning of the year again nice try. i dont know if u guyz are stupid or u work hard to be stupid. your jsut making stuff up and selling them to people gullible enough to buy into it. pathetic simply pathetic. 18 -
TO BKUnregistered - Gamer 01.02.2006 19:37 "beta dev kits which where 90% as good as the ifnal dev kits were released in the beginning of the year again nice try." You got a link that states that? I thought not, "NICE TRY" 19 -
Unregistered - huh? 01.02.2006 19:38 I don't even get the importance of this article? I'd think everyone would be pretty pissed off if games released almost 6-12 months after X360 launch titles weren't superior =P This has nothing to do with the fact they're PS3 games, or PC or X360 games for that matter, it's all common sense that they look better. Imagine how it would look if they didn't look better! Now that would be news worthy. 20 -
Unregistered - huh? 01.02.2006 19:41 Braddog, don't you expect a year old PC game to not look as good as games being released now? Of course they will look better, Sony isn't stupid =P What you need to compare, is the games being released for PC and X360 WHEN the PS3 launch titles are released. Which is beyond games like Gears of War for example, or (obviously) UT 2007 for PC...makes you think. 21 -
To # 16Unregistered - Gamer 01.02.2006 19:44 "MS put a lot of time in developing hardware while sony did the opposite and is working on software." Sony has spent close to 2 billion on Cell, you know how much M$ invested in its tri core processor? 200+ million about 250 Million. The link I gave in the previouse article to this also shows that M$ didnt start working on its GPU until 1 year after Sony started on theirs with nVidia, now tell me, which console has had the most thought and money put into it again? 22 -
Unregistered - figured something out 01.02.2006 19:45 sorry to post yet again (last 2 were mine too), but something seems pretty obvious to me, and shows how close all platforms will be (in my opinion). By the time PS3 comes out, we will probably have seen games like Gears of War and UT 2007, well looking at the newest movie for GoW, or screens from UT2007...All those demo's from Motorstorm, MGS4, etc. don't really seem that overly impressive. Wait, wrong wording, of course they're impressive; but so are GoW and UT2007! So all these "expected final product" PS3 movies don't seem that impossible anymore. At least, not in my opinion. Unless someone can show me some games with more detail than those UT 2007 screens, newest GoW movie, or the MGS video. In my opinion (from what we've seen), GoW looks the best so far, but quite a few unbiased people I know prefer MGS, so I guess that mainly has to do with style. They must be pretty similar in the graphics department. 23 -
Unregistered - #21 01.02.2006 19:48 Look it up, and don't follow your one link too closely. You're forgetting a few things. The Cell tech that cost that much money, is not the one you'll be finding in the PS3, it's actually still even in development. Also, if you'd use google a bit more, you'd see that your source is actually even wrong about something else. Microsoft had started research/development of their CPU/GPU 6-12 months after they finished the Xbox. Which is only a few months after it's introduction to the public. 24 -
To 23Unregistered - Gamer 01.02.2006 19:55 The Cell in PS3 is the same Cell they are still working on and improveing yields to bring future production costs down, you crack me up sometimes you Xbox fangirls. 25 -
BK U SUCKUnregistered - jojo 01.02.2006 19:57 YOUR INTELLIGENCE IS 20% LESS THAN A MONKEY AND 75%OF YOUR BRAIN CRASHED LIKE THE 360.AND STOP ALL OF YOU WITH PERCENTAGE BULLCRAP..... YOU DON'T KNOW SH!T! 26 -
To 23 againUnregistered - Gamer 01.02.2006 20:04 When Xbox was finished PS3 was already undergoing R&D when PS2 launched about 1.9 months before Xbox came out. M$ was undicided on which GPU manufacturer to go with and 1 year after PS3 GPU from Nvidia was in developement, M$ opted for ATI for its next gen system, if you can call it next gen that is. I follow the news all the time, unlike you who just pulls stuff from your ass. 27 -
To 23 Unregistered - Gamer 01.02.2006 20:10 That was supposed to be 1 year and 9 months that the PS3 was in R&D before Xbox launched 28 -
who caresUnregistered - hoehand 01.02.2006 20:16 it dosent how good their first gen looks by then ill be starting my second gen of 360 29 -
Unregistered - not an xbox fan 01.02.2006 20:37 yeah good, in racing game you are really going to stop and look at a tree for 30 mins 30 -
To # 29Unregistered - Gamer 01.02.2006 20:49 That isnt the point, you dont have to stop and look at the trees in PGR3 to see they look bad, like I said it was the first thing I noticed, the trees looked out of place for the game. The car models look great and in c0ckpit mode on certain tracks the game looks pretty realistic, but the trees... well they shouldn't have even included them, they make the game look dated. 31 -
Two thumbs downBOSS 01.02.2006 21:05 First gen movies more impessive than Xbox 360 games. Any body got some popcorn? 32 -
And all the xbots in xville cried boo hoo hooBillGatesSucks 01.02.2006 21:16 I am SO glad this news has been posted here on this site. I've seen it discussed in other forums but now that it's here, I am happy. It has all you pathetic little xbots stomping your feet in frustration. Huddy cries "The PS3 is unrefined!" and you all shout. Kojima declares the "technical possibility" for MGS4 to run on the 360 and you're overjoyed. Now, Tallarico states 1st gen PS3 games are far more impressive than 1st gen 360 games, and suddenly you're crying foul. "first of all u cant thrust what is based on one persons opinion" But we can trust YOUR opinion, right BK? Because....why? I think I will trust the opinion of an industry expert rather than yours. 33 -
Unregistered - dave 01.02.2006 21:23 good for ps3 thay had more time to develope the games, the xbox games where rushed. 34 -
Unregistered - Dave 01.02.2006 21:24 they have i ment, sry. 35 -
To # 33Unregistered - someone 01.02.2006 21:51 Not just the games were rushed, the console build was rushed and the launch was rushed, M$ are in such a rush to try grab as many gamers as possible, just a shame most people are interested in PS3 or should I say, waiting to see what Sony has to offer before buying a console. Sony are in no rush and have never been first to market with a console, Ms head start doesnt worry Sony, they will reveal all about PS3 when they are ready and give people a taste of playable content, when they are ready. All I can see all over the net is M$, some gameing sites and the Xbot fangirls all in panic mode, as CES grows ever nearer. 36 -
Unregistered - To #23 01.02.2006 22:02 I laugh at your ignorance! 37 -
It's overUnregistered - code_x 01.02.2006 22:10 PS3 is simply more powerful...game over. 38 -
XboxBOSS 01.02.2006 22:14 Microsoft has simply more money ..... game over 39 -
PAUL CERULA 01.02.2006 22:24 Look MGS4 and killzone both set to release A YEAR LATER in 2007. Plus the actual game does not have to be what the trailer ran and looked like. If your basing your decision on MGS4 and killzone trailers your being a fool. The guy who's making mgs4 kojima said both consoles are equal in power but ps3 is just a very very tad bit powerful. 40 -
ughUnregistered - BK 01.02.2006 22:31 1) NO IDIOT company starts making their next console after the second their current console has come out. so you sire are an idiot to think sony was making ps3 right after their ps2 came out. they wait a year or so. 2)i never said anything against this guy but as long as he could be paid 1k$ to say one company is better then the other you cant thrust his opinion. first of all he said nothing of which game or when because he will get in legal trouble? this is all an advertisement. im sure none of you know of hex 128 (i think it was 128) or origin or the psp graphities all over the US. you guyz no nothing of marketing and you see someones remarks and you go crazy over it. and the reason why you cant especially listong to this guy is because he has no facts at least the ATi dude had some facts behind him. 3) beta dev kits. have you ever heard of beta software or test beta version? beta is almost as good as the final why is it not final? because it still has a few bugs that needs to be taken care of. All beta dev kits are 90% above as good as their final counter parts because everything is finalized but there may be a few bugs in the functions. MS or M$ as you put it updates their consoles via xbox live something that sony doesnt so even if anything needs to be updated in the xbox 360 it can be easily done the moment you sign in xbox live. 4) and for the last damn time sony is done with their hardware so no the cell will no longer be updated!!!! 41 -
TO BKUnregistered - Gamer 01.02.2006 23:04 1) Your the one who is the "IDIOT" Sony are already thinking about PS4, Kutaragi has already expressed his dream for future consoles. PS2 was in R&D straight after PSX launch same with PS3 after PS2 launch, dont you read the god damn news? 2) I dont have a clue what you were trying to say their, must be some un-known Xbot language, I've never seen before. 3) I know what beta devkits are but you clearly don't, PS3's Beta devkit was running a Cell chip at 2.4Ghz with 6800 ultra, is that realy 90% of final hardware? NO, so STFU. IF! beta kits were 90% of final hardware, then you are now playing 90% of the overall power on your X360 by your thinking, as the launch games were finalised on beta kits. 4)The cell will be updated you moron, Sony, Toshiba and IBM will not continue to produce the Cell processor @ 90nm they are working to go to 65nm then 45nm to reduce production costs, stop pulling shee out of your ass, your nothing but an Xbox fanboi, with no brains. 42 -
BK you klutzUnregistered - bo 01.02.2006 23:09 "1) NO IDIOT company starts making their next console after the second their current console has come out. so you sire are an idiot to think sony was making ps3 right after their ps2 came out. they wait a year or so." Wrong. Nintendo Revolution was being developed right after the cube came out. PS3, as the guy above said, started development when Xbox 1 was finished. Xbox 360 development started right after Xbox 1 was released, as J. Allard said. The difference is that PS3 has been almost 6 years in development, while the 360 took 4, if not a little less. Way to be a fan, putz. "2)i never said anything against this guy but as long as he could be paid 1k$ to say one company is better then the other you cant thrust his opinion. " Where is your proof for that? How do you know he is being bribed? Is it so hard to believe that the PS3 is way better than you expected? "first of all he said nothing of which game or when because he will get in legal trouble? this is all an advertisement." It's called a contract, dumbass. Developers can't talk about consoles unless they are allowed, otherwise their asses will be sued. Just like Kojima found it hard to keep the Revolution controller secret, but he had to, there is a contract. "im sure none of you know of hex 128 (i think it was 128) or origin or the psp graphities all over the US." Yeah, we don't "no" anything, because you are the only gamer here, despite the fact that you will most likely get a 360 and just a 360. "you guyz no nothing of marketing and you see someones remarks and you go crazy over it." Actually, it is usually the 360 fanboys that had penis envy over the PS2 this generation because it outsold the Xbox by more than a 4:1 ratio, so they need to shout every time something good favors 360. "and the reason why you cant especially listong to this guy is because he has no facts at least the ATi dude had some facts behind him." Umm... what? The ATI dude, a Microsoft provider, hasn't seen PS3 games. Tallarico has seen games on both sides. This guy has worked for games on several consoles, not exclusively for one team, so who do you think is more biased, asshole? "3) beta dev kits. have you ever heard of beta software or test beta version? beta is almost as good as the final why is it not final? because it still has a few bugs that needs to be taken care of. All beta dev kits are 90% above as good as their final counter parts because everything is finalized but there may be a few bugs in the functions." And you pulled those statistics out of where... your ass I suppose? How do you know it's 90% and not 75%? or 80%? Or any number between 90 and 50 for that matter? "MS or M$ as you put it" Or $ony as you may put it " updates their consoles via xbox live" That's why they can screw up, "we'll do this later" "something that sony doesnt" Because it isn't needed? It's called quality control. You know... the Japanese do it more often than Americans. Also it is because the content is all in one disc, as it should always be without the need to pay extra for enjoying a game you bought already? " so even if anything needs to be updated in the xbox 360 it can be easily done the moment you sign in xbox live." Translation: 360 is rushed, so it'll need to be updated constantly. "4) and for the last damn time sony is done with their hardware so no the cell will no longer be updated!!!! " Umm, the hardware can still be updated just as Microsoft changed providers for the Xbox 1 DVD player. The thing is, they won't shell out as many crappy consoles, but hardware is always being optimized. So just in case, 2nd gen or 3rd gen PS3s could get optimized while still running the same games, but 1st gen PS3s will work fine, just with an older not so optimized hardware for production. 43 -
to comment 39Havoc 01.02.2006 23:46 No Paul your being a fool, so your saying don't buy a ps3 because MGS4 is coming out in 2007, then you would agree don't buy a xbox 360 because halo 3 is coming out in 2007. Look at yourself your being a hypocrite, do you believe Kojima or not. Oh you belive him when he says the ps3 and 360 are close in performence but you don't believe in the MGS4 realtime demo Kojima showed off. You just think the game is going to look totally different graphic wise. I mean Kojima tells you it's real time ingame engine then proves it to you but you just blow it off like it's nothing, then Kojima says yea this can be technically done on the 360 and you take that in with open arms and say the ps3 is just a very very tad bit powerful. Splinter cell can technically be done on the ps2 So does that mean the xbox is just a very very tad bit powerful than the ps2? We don't know how close the ps3 and 360 are in performence. Just stop it you sound like a Microsoft representative. 44 -
PAUL CERULA 01.03.2006 00:06 Havoc, First of all I said not to base your decision on the TRAILERS...not the system Second I didn't denounce buying a console for a game like mgs4 and halo 3 The fact that mgs4 trailer was in realtime was probably true but may not be the actual gameplay you experience. Like a cutscene in a game that looks better than the actual gameplay. Like putting more effort into a cutscene or trailer to give off the notion that that will be what the gameplay is. It may be...it can be by that time having close to two more years until launch. The most common comment from kojima is that you can run mgs4 easily on a xbox 360. This is not where I get the fact that he said both consoles are very close to equal. 1up.com had a episode with kojima and the host talks about his comments. I think its the 9th episode. 45 -
PAUL CERULA 01.03.2006 00:08 When i said 2 more years till launch i meant the game mgs4 in 2007 46 -
tommy tallorico is a credible sourceagent864 01.03.2006 00:31 this is the first unbiased credible source commenting on the PS3. I say that because I watch him on G4 and he tells it like it is. So hopefully we'll get to see some more in just a few short days .... Vegas CES 2006 baby! the buggy PS3 rumours may also be true, but its from an unnamed source who reportedly was exposed to an early dev kit, so I take some salt with that. So the proof will be in the pudding so to speak so lets all wait and see. 47 -
It really hits homeUnregistered - Dragonopolis 01.03.2006 00:57 I wanted a xbox360. I read the reviews saw live demos of the Xbox360 and decided that the system was powerful enough for the money and had enough platform only titles that I like playing to feel good about the purchase. Sony boys plastered the news on the net about Xbox360 hardware problems and making it seem like MS was secretly playing down the hardware issue problems. Just Sony fanboy talk, right! Funny thing is I was going to get my first live try of a Xbox360 but still haven't because my friends Xbox360 got the red light of death (I guess microsoft decided blue wasn't enough). Then shortly after that, my buddy's friend got the red light of death on his Xbox360 (both got their 360's from totally different sources). I know sony had issues during the PS2 Launch, but I don't remember ever hearing any of my friends complaining about or suffering any major failures nor did I hear about it through the usual gossip chain about their friends having problems. My opinion, when you push the hype you better deliver and MS didn't. They instead rush out a beta machine that should have waited six months so games like GoW, Halo, and other killer titles could have had more time to be polished. Microsoft could have done more hardware testing and produced more units to make the World Wide launch smoother. If Xbox360 is truly more refine, (as the ATI guy puts it), then why did MS have to release so early. If us xboxfanboys supposedly know so much about marketing then we would know that first to market generally has a history of being the loser as far as electronic consumer market is concerned. Microsoft does have more money to throw at marketing since sony blew most of their money on cell and video display technology (one their main money makers). This would have put more pressure on Sony and sometimes people buckle under pressure. Microsoft will have had games comparable to games coming out on PS3 graphic wise and microsoft does have more room to play with as far as price of system because the Xbox360 is cheaper to produce than PS3. ( I personally believe MS could have sold the Xbox360 for less than they currently have set the prices at). I have come to the conclusion that MS's only reason for coming out this early was that they wanted to milk us Xboxfanboy's for more $. I believe they knew that alot of the Xbox360 units going out were beta units disguised as final units. They probably had tons of evil MS analysts calculate the cost of fixing those units vs waiting six months and battling out with Sony and discovered that they would make more money doing it this way. But analysts aren't human. They're cold calculating machines disguised as humans to trick us humans into battling amongst ourselves for money and toys. Anywho, MS took a gamble to make a buck and are going to pay the consequences for it. I and my friends and their friends (and so on) have passed the word of mouth and at least in my circle of friends we are P#s$ off at MS and that's alot of Xbox fans pissed of. Not good for business. Now how many Xbox fans have similar stories? It appears that the internet news was not quite hype up as thought. Having real life Xbox360 failures close to home and dismal Launch titles, I'll just sit tight and wait for CES. Sony needs to WOW us here -- NO movies --real games and the world might not come to the end after all. Oh wait, there's Nintendo. Hey, if they can produce Xbox 1.5 graphics (who cares about HD) and guarantee consistant 60fps for around $200 and a cool new controller to boot. I'm in! 48 -
Something for all of you to think aboutDev1032 01.03.2006 01:39 I'll make it simple for you all PS3 does raytracing X360 doesnt, X360 uses a different method which is called Procedural Synthesis, raytracing is a realistic method of rendering images or frames. Procedural Synthesis involves creating new data, geometry, textures, etc at runtime, which isnt a realistic form of rendering graphics. On top of that the X360 is useing compression, as a DVD only holds 9Gig of info, resulting in degraded content on the disc, which I actualy mentioned in another thread on here somewhere. 49 -
Whatever!!BOSS 01.03.2006 01:40 Microsoft will sell every XBOX 360 shipped to the USA. Regardless of what any of you say. 50 -
DOA4BOSS 01.03.2006 01:45 Have you guys seen Dead or Alive 4. Looks great doesnt it? 51 -
WHO!!!!!!BOSS 01.03.2006 01:48 Who the hell is Tommy Tallarico. Isnt He the janitor at McDonalds. 52 -
Specs for RSX have been released! Can you say multi-core?BillGatesSucks 01.03.2006 02:45 I posted this link in another thread but considering this is the hottest thread right now I thought I should post here as well. The specs for the RSX have been released and it appears Nvidia has been learning some lessons from Sony. The RSX is going to be multi-cored much like the Cell processor. The site is in translated Chinese so the grammar will seem a bit strange but the message is pretty obvious. http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgames.sina.com.cn%2Fy%2Fn%2F2006-01-01%2F1357138708.shtml&langpair=zh-CN%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 53 -
Ha...Truth 01.03.2006 03:41 To the people spouting the current generation of XBOX 360 games haven't even scratched the surface... I laugh at you. CPU's today, especially multicored ones are meant to suck as much juice out of the GPU's as possible. It's all about efficiency boys and girls and the Cell is beyond comparison to the Xenos processor in the XBOX 360. There is no comparison so don't even try. So to those saying, "OMGOOZORROZ GEERS OF WAR IZ ONLE RUNIN ON 1 OF DA XBOX 360's PROCEZORS!!" again, I laugh at you. Even with a game like Gears of War running on all three processors it's not going to make the game look like the XBOX 720 or whatever shat name Microsoft decides to come up with. You may get slightly better physics and whatnot, but no where near the extent of what you'll get out of the Cell processor. Put it this way. You can have one of the 360's processors work on physics, another AI and what's the other left for? Hey... graphics. Then you have the Cell. One for physics, hell TWO for physics, one for... what the hell TWO for AI and you STILL have THREE left for graphics and whatnot. And that's ONLY the SPE's not the main Cell processor itself. Wow. Numbers are fun, eh? Yes, each of the Cell's SPE's run at 3.2GHZ so they are all as powerful as the XBOX 360's processors. :) People also forget that the Cell in itself is a GPU. Couple it's power with that of the RSX which is rumored to be a more advanced 512MB Nvidia Geforce 7800 GTX with extra goodies and forget about it man. The battle is cut, dry and hanging for all to see. But again, as one person said... the proof is in the pudding. I'm willing to eat my words come CES or perhaps E3. Untill then though. PS3 baby. P.S.3. 54 -
Tommy Tallarico is an idjit...Unregistered - Cray 01.03.2006 03:42 Yes, the guy is an idjit. I am glad you feel that he tells like it is, but after having met the guy at IGN Live: not only is he short, he is brainless. I couldn't care less about his opinion. And I am all about stopping to smell the roses, but stopping my game to ogle the tree just is not my cup of soup. ARGH! I cannot wait for some real, credible information in the hopes these flame wars can stop. I have an Xbox 360. I don't think I have actually turned it off since I got it on 22 Nov. Really. I have friends and friends and more friends who have them and have not had a problem. I think we hear more about the problems these days because people use forums like these more than they did when the PS2 came out. Am I going to buy the PS3? Yes. Heck, I'll even preorder it as soon as we get a real date. My 360 is awesome, and I am sure the PS3 is going to be just as fun... fun, because that is kind of what it is about... right? right? 55 -
BillGatesSucks!Truth 01.03.2006 03:46 Let me just say I skipped over your link to the RSX schematics the first time through... however, -IF- that article is true than the XBOX 360 is officially owned. 56 -
One more thing...Truth 01.03.2006 03:56 "I'll make it simple for you all PS3 does raytracing X360 doesnt, X360 uses a different method which is called Procedural Synthesis, raytracing is a realistic method of rendering images or frames. Procedural Synthesis involves creating new data, geometry, textures, etc at runtime, which isnt a realistic form of rendering graphics. On top of that the X360 is useing compression, as a DVD only holds 9Gig of info, resulting in degraded content on the disc, which I actualy mentioned in another thread on here somewhere." ---------------------------------------------------------- Dev1032 couldn't have said it any better and I really wish he would post more and more fanboys of a "CERTAIN" system would listen. Two words in his whole post summed it up perfectly. Raytracing and compression. Why raytracing and compression? Because raytracing is what computer farms do to render images like say, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. Compression is what game developers don't have to do on the Blu-ray format of disks. Those nice high resolution textures on that new GTA game are going to take up alot more than 9GB's kiddies. So don't expect to be playing that streaming 10 city landscape of the next GTA on your shiny XBOX 360 as the puny 9GB disc won't cut it. ESPECIALLY on 720p or 1080p resolutions which push up the disc space usage immensely. ;) 57 -
ps3 all ways better Unregistered - uc 01.03.2006 04:18 plz reply what means (CES)??????? 58 -
To 57Truth 01.03.2006 04:36 It's like E3 except bigger and yet... not? Just go to the site, heh. http://www.cesweb.org/default_flash.asp 59 -
To TruthDev1032 01.03.2006 05:11 I dont post much because I'm quite a busy person, not only that I hate all the flame wars that happen on here. BTW I forgot to mention, PS3 does Precedural Synthesis too, the speed tree middleware that comes with devkits uses Precedural Sythesis to render trees. I also forgot to mention that Blu-Ray still uses compression for video content, just not as heavy as what will be used for Hi-Def video on a DVD disc. Uncompressed video in 1080p @ 24fps would take up 537GB per hour, the Bandwidth Required = 150MB/sec add a bit more for uncompressed sound, which would roughly require a 22x blu-ray drive or a 108x DVD drive. 60 -
Uh huh...Truth 01.03.2006 05:30 Yeah I figured the PS3 would require it in some places as well as 1080p taking up enormous amount of disc space. In your opinion though, which is a better format for the next generation of content. Be it movies, games, music, etc... Blu-ray or HD-DVD? More specifically lets say when then have upwards of 8x dual layered Blu-ray disc's and players. And one more question. Does the XBOX 360 support raytracing in any way? In forethought I would think it does in a limited way as it's really just the way light reflects, absorbs and such. You're the expert though. :) 61 -
To TruthDev1032 01.03.2006 06:11 I would have to say blu-ray, its more future proof, more and more capacity will be needed as time goes by, HD-DVD cant offer the same capacity as blu-ray, in the coming years upto next gen media. No X360 doesnt support raytracing, if it does I've never heard about it, and I dont remember reading about it in the white papers. 62 -
To BillGatesSucksDark Samurai 01.03.2006 06:33 About the article link you posted, i'll be surprised if it's true. Because GPUs have parallel processing inherently. When they increase the number of pipelines each generation, it's like adding a core. For example ATI X800 has 16 pixelpipes or 4 quads (4 times 4 pipes). Plus, when you bring the added complexity of programming into account.....ummm, i don't know. Perhaps it's better to wait for CES. 63 -
To TruthDev1032 01.03.2006 06:36 I realy dont think raytracing is possible, due to the arcitecture of X360, even when you run procedural synthesis algorithms on X360, one of the Xenon CPU cores can lock a portion of the 1 MB shared L2 cache, so I'm not gonna say anything else on this. 64 -
about sony and MSUnregistered - kain 01.03.2006 06:51 well, in my opinion, simply, MS (all that comes from them, including windows, office, software, hardware, etc) stinks, on the other hand, Sony (allmost everything that comes from them, mainly hardware, etc) is top quality... So, I would stick to PS3. I own a bunch of machines like, PC (with all that Ms software), xbox, ps2, psx, and many others, and belive me, all that comes from Japan is GOOD, period. 65 -
Unregistered - toearly 01.03.2006 07:32 Its because the xbox360 was released to early. The hardware is good but devs got final hardaware just 2 months before launch. THats why the games right now dont look that great. 66 -
To 65Dev1032 01.03.2006 08:26 The truth is, most games were ports and all launch games were finished on beta kits, for example, PGR3 wasn't a port, thats why it looks better than other launch titles, but still doesn't represent what final hardware is capable of, because it also was built on beta kits, only the ports look the worst, weather this will effect Microsoft, is yet to be seen, but this is how Sony beat Sega which didn't have the financial backing like Microsoft, Microsoft could bounce back, but I think Sony has invested too much into next gen hardware this time round and it will show. Microsoft launching first to me seems like a bad mistake and thats as far as I go on what I'm going to say about this. 67 -
Unregistered - ME 01.03.2006 09:55 HERE'S MORE TOMMY TALLARICO TALKING ABOUT HOW THE PS3 IS BETTER STRAIGHT FROM AN IGN Q/A SESSION. SORRY 360 FANBOYS. rockman1974 posted:Hi Tommy, I myself have been within this industry in one form or another for some time now. I just recently opened up a videogame media website and I know how it feels to talk to the general public. Sometimes people are just insane. But enough about that... I've been lucky to see a few things on the PS3 but man, when I say a few things, it's more like one thing. I'm nowhere near your position so I'm curious how a few things are coming along. From what you know, the controller will not be released as is (a la the boomerang). I have been told that the Duel Shock 2 is being used as the blueprint for all PS3 games. In fact I've been told that no one knows what the final design will be. I just wanted to know if you think Sony should just keep the PS2 controller and call it a day. I've been using that controller for what, 8 years now. I also wanted to know what is your single most anticipated PS3 title. You can surely tell us one game you are looking farward to above all else, can't you...if it has been announced that is. I also want your take on the real time vs pre-rendered footage we've been hearing so much about. It's starting to get on my nerves that everyone is saying everything on the PS3 is pre-rendered. After everyone says this, we see Kojima-san prove that MGS4 will be looking extremely nice in real time. So what's your take on this. Will PS3 be a Killzone-looking pumping machine or something else? Thanks for answering man. It's awesome to chat it up with you here. Quote: Great questions... What you heard about the PS3 controller is correct. Yes... I personally LOVE the PS controller exactly the way it is now. "PLEASE don't change it Sony!!" Most anticipated titles for PS3?? Damn... can't really say... well I mean I could... but I'd get into trouble. So I'll just go with Killzone & MGS 4 for now. Yes.. there seems to be a lot of over-reacting by people about what is REAL and NOT REAL on the PS3. All I can say for sure is that the REAL TIME games I've been PLAYING look pretty damn decent compared to the released footage that people have argued isn't real. Does is look exactly like the some of the trailers?? No... not exactly... BUT!!! It still blows you away and takes your breath away... makes you stand back in awe and go WOW!! Which is exactly what the 360 did NOT do to me upon launch. Hopefully we'll be seeing more WOW factor in the 2nd gen titles. Hope that helped. Thanks, Tommy] Hi Tommy Tallarico you rock! Hey what do you think about the PS3 gamepad? Do you like it? Also I have heard a lot of people saying they don't feel the X box 360 games really look Next Gen. Do you think they will be saying the same thing about the PS3 games? Quote: Great questions!! I think the PS3 gamepad they showed at E3 this year was the biggest pile of crap EVER!! (and people actually have the nerve to say I'm a Sony loving fanboy?!?!?) Although I can tell you that the PS3 controller will NOT look anything like that stupid excuse for a boomerang they showed. All of the developers have been told to develop for a specific current brand controller which will have a similar button layout. That is all I can really say... BUT.. I can also say that none of the developers I know have got the final PS3 controller and from what I understand.. no final decision has been made exactly. I think that some of the PS3 titles coming out at launch will be on par with the "not so next gen looking" launch titles of the 360. But from what I have seen... the PS3 will have a lot more titles that DO look and feel next gen upon launch... but it's always hard to say what titles will actually come out on launch... especially when no one exactly knows when the machine will launch! So the games I see might not come out on launch... too early to tell... all I know is that what I'm currently seeing on the PS3 impresses me more than what I saw on launch for the 360. T.T. 68 -
interestingUnregistered - read me 01.03.2006 09:57 December 28, 2005 - Just in time for the end of 2005 and the start of 2006, the biggest players in the Japanese game market have shared with Japanese publication Dorimaga their thoughts on the year that was and the years that are to come. Included are some revealing bits about future projects, choices for the best of 2005 and even a self evaluation score! Let's take a look. Satoshi Komuro -- Sony Computer Entertainment Publicity Komuro gives himself 80 out of 100 for the year, claiming that there were a few things left undone that he'll finish up in 2006. He promises to surprise everyone in 2006 with PlayStation-related developments, noting that the Tokyo Game Show showing of PlayStation 3 was just a glimpse at the system. The game that left the greatest impression with Komuro was Shadow of the Colossus. The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the Tokyo Game Show; he was personally most happy that many attendees downloaded games at the PlayStation Spot terminals. Ken Toyoda -- Nintendo Publicity Toyoda gives himself 90 out of 100 for the year. He doesn't reveal any new details on Revolution, but does promise that Nintendo will put full effort in pleasing not just non-gamers, but traditional gamers as well. The game that left the greatest impression with Toyoda was Nintendogs. The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the demand Nintendo had from older audiences. Yoshihiro Maruyama -- Microsoft Xbox Manager Maruyama gives himself 80 out of 100, claiming that because the Xbox 360 managed to make it to launch, he can't give himself a lower rating. He'd like to raise the score by releasing new games and pushing the hardware. "The battle has just begun," he says. The game that left the greatest impression with Maruyama was Every Party (IGN will interject here with notice that Every Party is a terrible game). The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the launch of the 360. Tetsuya Nomura -- Square Enix Designer Nomura gives himself 100 out of 100. Apparently he gave himself 50 in 2004 because he was unable to release Advent Children. In addition to the 50 for that product, which finally arrived earlier this year, this year's score gets 50 from Kingdom Hearts II, which was released to Japan on December 22. For 2006, Nomura states that his next directorial role is coming into view. The Kingdom Hearts II team, having just finished work on KHII, has yet to start on the next generation of systems. The team that made the PS3 Final Fantasy VII demo, however, has been working on next generation stuff for the past year, and has shared with Nomura the belief that working on next generation machines is tough. Nomura points to PSP's Crisis Core as something that will get his attention in 2006, and also expresses interest in more casual portable games. The game that left the greatest impression Nomura was Tekken 5, as he played it most; he actually plays all Tekken games when they come out. When Kingdom Hearts II was finished, he got sucked into the PS2 version of Resident Evil 4 and cleared it late at night. The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the build up to the release of Advent Children. Akitoshi Kawazu -- Square Enix Producer, Powerful Person Kawazu, known for the Saga series, gives himself a 60 out of 100 for this year, citing that the project he's working on right now won't be released for two years, so he can't include it in the score. The game that left the greatest impression with Kawazu was Kingdom Hearts II. The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the Square Enix Party. Yoshinori Yamagishi -- Square Enix Producer Yamagishi gives himself a 70 out of 100, citing the successful release of Radiata Stories and the announcement of Valkyrie Profile. He promises to stick with the release dates for the two new Valkyrie games, and adds that Valkyrie Profile 2 will support progressive output in order to show just how good the current generation can look even with all the next generation systems coming out. For the next generation, he's excited about the PS3 based on the specs, although he states that it's difficult to clearly see the future for any of the next generation hardware at this point. He expresses the wish that Microsoft had slowed things down a bit between the announcement of the Xbox 360 and its release. The game that left the greatest impression with Yamagishi was Killer 7, although he also liked Resident Evil 4. GameCube was his most played system for 2005. The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the Square Enix Party. Yoshiki Sugiyama -- Koei, Dynasty Warriors Producer Sugiyama gives himself 80 out of 100 because even though he believes that he worked hard, there's always something remaining that he cannot quite accept. When asked about the Revolution, PS3 and Xbox 360, he states that Koei will be fully supporting all platforms, although he adds that he hopes to make Revolution games. The game that left the greatest impression with Sugiyama was Nintendo's Train Your Brain (Nou wo Kitaeru). The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was Nintendo's Touch Generations, a lineup of titles that appeal to a new user group (the lineup includes Train Your Brain, Nintendogs and other successes). Keiji Inafune -- Capcom, Producer Inafune gives himself a 75 for the year, believing that 2005 was actually a difficult year for the game industry as a whole. Capcom will be announcing a number of titles in 2006, he reveals. The game that left the greatest impression with Inafune was God of War, which he believes offers a lot for developers to learn. The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the start of next generation gaming. Hideo Kojima -- Konami, Metal Gear Solid Producer Kojima gives himself a low 35 out of 100 for the year because he didn't release anything new. He wanted to leave Metal Gear Solid 4 to his staff so that he could start up a new game, but was unable to do this. Regarding next generation development -- specifically Metal Gear Solid 4 -- he jokes that Konami had already started work on Xbox 360 games back when Metal Gear Solid 3 finished completion, and it's somewhat annoying to have to play catch up. He doesn't seem too keen on the idea of multiplatform development, stating that he believes it important for game designers to concentrate exclusively on a single platform so that they can bring out the platform's special features and better target its audience. He does admit to wanting to make games for all three next generation platforms, though, giving the nod in particular to Revolution as a platform that, as a designer, it would be "foolish" for him to pass up on. With Revolution, he adds, he'd like to make strives in areas other than graphics and sound, a change for him, as he believes he's known as someone who pursues realistic visuals owing to his love of movies. Revolution isn't the platform he most wants to support, though. That honor goes to the PC, although he admits that his staff doesn't take so kindly to this position. The games that left the greatest impression with Kojima were Shadow of the Colossus and God of War, both of which he praises for having well defined themes, game settings and world views. The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the reorganization of Konami which left Kojima Productions a subsidiary. Akihiro Hino -- Level 5, CEO Hino rates himself 90 out of 100 for 2005, with the 10 points taken off for the amount of trouble he believes he caused people related to the Rogue Galaxy project due to the tough schedule. He jokes that if he'd been able to follow the original plan for the game precisely, Rogue Galaxy would've gotten a perfect score in all the magazines. Asked about next generation systems, he says that when considering the type of software that he makes, he'd put more weight behind the PlayStation 3, although this doesn't mean that he's uninterested in the other hardware. Regarding a True Fantasy Live Online revival, while stating that he has nothing to say at this point, he notes that fans are still supporting the game and the game industry is still giving it attention. He also adds that his staff has a good amount of interest in working on the project, so "there's still some possibility." However, it's possible that a resulting game wouldn't be TFLO exactly as is, but something that inherits the soul of that lost Xbox title. For 2006, he promises to continue making new stuff, adding that Level 5 will not just announce something new, but may actually release something new as well. Included in the games that Level 5 is planning to work on in 2006 is a non-RPG title, he reveals. The year 2005 game that left the greatest impression with Hino was Shadow of the Colossus. The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the reorganization of the industry (mergers, buy-outs, etc.). Yu Suzuki -- Sega AM Plus Manager Suzuki gives himself a 60 for the year. Asked about the PS3, Revolution and Xbox 360, he refers to Xbox 360 as being PC-like, Revolution as being toy-like and PS3 as being like a super home appliance. As a programmer, he states that he's most interested in whatever has the most horse power, even if it means the system is difficult to handle (he breaks off into one of those car analogies people like to use when describing system power -- we'll spare you the details). He closes off by stating that if the PS3, like the PS2, allows developers to gradually harness its power, he's interested in it. With work on Psy-Phi complete, Suzuki says that he's now started researching massively multiplayer Online RPG development (this includes Shenmue Online). He believes the possibilities for the genre will grow considerably in the future, noting that the vigor of the current Korean and Chinese game markets remind him of the Japanese game market years ago. The game that left the greatest impression with Suzuki was Nintendogs (he played it himself), adding that he was impressed overall with the Nintendo DS lineup. The event or happening that left the greatest impression with him was the start of projects from a number of major, independent developers like Hironobu Sakaguchi. Makoto Yoshidumi -- Namco CT Company Producer Yoshidumi, who works on the Tales series, gives himself a 97 out of 100 for the year, adding that 2004 was a 120 out of 100 year for him. The game that left the greatest impression with him in 2005 was Shadow of the Colossus. The big happening or event was Namco's merger with Bandai. Hiroi Ouji -- Red Company President The creator of the Sakura Wars and Tengai Makyo series gives himself 70 out of 100 for the year. When asked about PS3, Xbox 360 and Revolution, he goes on and on about how interested he is in the Nintendo hardware -- specifically, the controller. For 2006, he states that he'd like to create a new manuscript (something that will possibly later become a game or anime -- Ouji is known for much more than just his games). He was most impressed by Shadow of the Colossus this year. Kazunori Yamauchi -- Polyphony Digital President The father of Gran Turismo gives himself an 80 for the year because of the successful overseas release of Gran Turismo 4 and the new challenges he took, including the new Gran Turismo for the PlayStation 3 and Tourist Trophy. When asked what he's undertaking for 2006, he mentions finishing Tourist Trophy and concentrating on development of the new Gran Turismo (he seems to be referring to the PS3 title). For 2005, he was most impressed by Shadow of the Colossus. So there you have it! Lots of vague hints at upcoming plans, and lots of praise for Shadow of the Colossus. Once 2006 hits, we can probably expect solid details on the games now getting the attention of these developers to slowly start leaking out, leading to a full flood come E3. Until then... 69 -
xboxboys in troubleUnregistered - Hell 01.03.2006 10:24 You all Xboxlovers fear the power of PS3. Sure you bash on that machine to feel good about your 360, were some of you waited 10 hours in line for. Don't worry, bash as much as you want... PS3 will wash the 360 away. 70 -
Dev1032 01.03.2006 11:07 I wish CES was today, I want to share stuff I know about next gen, its real bad when you know stuff but are held back by a contract not to say stuff, well its not actualy a contract, but you have to sign stuff to say you wont disclose what you have seen, or what you know. I dont even know if Sony will show anything at CES, they have certainly reserved alot of space for CES, but they are one of the top electronic company's so that is expected anyway, the space isn't just for PS3, they have a wide range of stuff to show off at CES includeing a very large Hi-Def TV I believe. 71 -
boy...Unregistered - Man o man... 01.03.2006 11:09 #24 I'm sorry, but how stupid can you get, the Cell that is now still in development is not only to cut production costs you moron, or did you actually expect it to be only used in the PS3? Please, go vist an expo in Japan for God's sake, at the moment they're working on a cell chip that can be used in a fridge and all kind of electronic appliances, with it's capabilities not to be fully functional untill early 2007, you think they'll wait that long for the PS3? I know you probably think they just stick some microchip in a product and it starts flashing lights and works at 200%, but that's not really how things work in the real world. #26 I'd like to see where you got that info from, all preliminary research for the 3 next-gen consoles had begun shortly after the release of the consoles, but IF you REALLY HAD BEEN following the news, you'd know that Sony got way behind in development factors. Or don't you remember that in april of last year, they were considering stepping over to HD-DVD, and the entire disc format was unsure for about 3 months? Or how NVIDIA held out on completing the GPU untill the 2nd quarter of 2005, yet again FAR behind the X360. Have you already forgotten Sony's promises to have a playable version of the PS3 available at the E3 in May 2005? Or the fact that development was so far behind that gaming developers have not been able to show us anything tangible, even now? For someone who follows the news so well, you seem to have forgotten quite a few things. Or did you actually believe SCE's initial announcement that the third time they delayed tbe PS3's unveiling it had nothing to do with their development process running behind? Oh wait, how about the development tools that had to be sent back, putting them another 2 months behind. Maybe you should use google for example, just to look up whatever you've forgotten (and What I've said here). Why not immediatly check out how ATI started developing the graphics chip for Microsoft in June 2003, an announcement of this following in August 2003. AFTER THIS, Nvidia realising it just lost Microsoft and Nintendo, started looking towards Sony. AFTER ATI SIGNED THE CONTRACT WITH MS. --'ATI (ATYT: Research, Estimates) beat out nVidia earlier this month for the right to provide the graphics chip for Microsoft's (MSFT: Research, Estimates) next game machine. That followed ATI's March announcement that it had struck a technology development deal with Nintendo, presumably to supply the graphics technology for the successor to the GameCube. The king of the console industry hasn't made any commitments yet, though. And while Sony (SNE: Research, Estimates) has preferred to own the technology components in past PlayStations, it might be mulling some changes this time around.'-- In DECEMBER NVIDIA revealed they got the contract to develop for Sony's PS3. Get your facts straight before shooting off at the mouth. And you can confirm everything I've said here using things like google or newsnet. #41 "Your the one who is the "IDIOT" Sony are already thinking about PS4, Kutaragi has already expressed his dream for future consoles. PS2 was in R&D straight after PSX launch same with PS3 after PS2 launch, dont you read the god damn news?" I'm sorry it's you AGAIN, but this is juat a completely unrelated comment of yours. Are you trying to suggest it's a GOOD THING that Ken has announced plans for the PS4, of course not! That's just Ken trying to hold onto his job, and then announcing it within the next decade is just ridiculous. He also just keeps talking about his dreams, and that there are no concrete plans even on the table. What a bs comment of yours. Also, like I've said above, you're also totally wrong about the rest. Only the CPU for the PS3 was in development by IBM, who does it for everyone. And Nintendo was first in that aspect, followed by Microsoft, and THEN Sony. #53 " CPU's today, especially multicored ones are meant to suck as much juice out of the GPU's as possible." Funny guy...We're going to have to wait several years before this is the case, maybe you should check out some reviews of AMD and Pentium's new Multicored CPU's before jumping to conclusions? 72 -
XBOX 360 is nothingAsshole 01.03.2006 11:14 c'mon guys everybody just knows that x360 games sux alot, and the most anticipated game is gears of war that runs on sh!tty 5-10FPS..I mean that PS2 games are now graphically more impressive..one other thing there is no real time enhanced physics actions in the 360 games.. P.S. Waiting for the dream PS 3.5 73 -
Hi PS3TodayUnregistered - EPS 01.03.2006 11:16 And for those supporting raytracing (and understand what it entails), we might have seen realtime raytracing presentations since 1995, but rendering wise I doubt we want to see alot of Doom 3 clone games, because those kind of textures is what raytracing shines in. Through the rays of light you can create realistic images with lots of reflective properties. I don't want to start talking about raytracing though, as it is Procedural Synthesis that has been getting the bad rap here. It has been used in games since 2003, patented by...that's right, Microsoft. I seem to see some downplaying of it's optimal use of system bandwidth and main memory by dynamically generating lower-level geometry data from statically stored higher-level scene data. Especially Dev1032 seems to be putting this down to compression and stating it's a "bad" thing. On the contrary, so far this tech def. seems to be part of the future. At the moment, I've been teaching at the BAT's Game Design and Development in Hilversum, and we've def. been excited with Microsoft's plans to execute this in the X360. It seems to be the road to the future of graphical development in games. For those that are interested, yet seem to think compression is not the way to go, I'd like to refer to MS's detailed patent. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser? Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=% 2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50& ;co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20040263519&OS=20040263519& RS=20040263519 hopefully that link will work, and though it might seem like quite a read, you'll be able to pick out certain very handy tidbits of information. I think you need to realise that no matter how powerful the CPU/GPU combo is, or how much data you can store on any kind of disc, be it DVD, Blu-ray or even the holographic discs we've (yet again) been hearing so much about, you'll always come up short without this kind of tech. Why? Imagine, like someone mentioned above, an entire city a la GTA is rendered by hand, (which can get quite pricy, but that's besides the point). By the time you've filled up your city, alot of the objects that populate a 3D scene must be stored as vertex data in system memory and then moved onto the GPU for rendering. If you're looking at an enormous city, the amount of vertex data stored would take a massive amount of system memory, and moving all of that data into the GPU would take a massive amount of bus bandwidth. Both PS3 and the X360 have of course found certain solutions for this, as the console hardware's limited main memory sizes and limited bus bandwidth seem to be the big problem this coming generation. Now this is where it comes to people downplaying MS's Procedural Synthesis tech. You see, it stores high-level descriptions of objects in the main memory, and have the CPU procedurally generate the vertex data of the objects on the fly. his information is passed into the Xbox 360's Xenon CPU, where the vertex data is generated by one or more running threads. These threads then feed that vertex data directly into the GPU by way of a special set of write buffers in the L2 cache. The end result of all this is that the amount of data that is stored in main memory and moved into the CPU is much less than the amount of data that the CPU puts out and that the GPU ends up processing. This is what Microsoft calls a compression ratio, the whole idea behind it being that main memory stores a "compressed" version of the scene, while the GPU renders a "decompressed" version of the scene. This does NOT slow processing down in any way, and is only a positive thing. Procedural synthesis allows game developers to do more with a console's limited system memory. And Developers can do MORE with LESS disk space. Now I could go on and on about Real-time tessellation, skinning and the like, but I'm sure those who are interested already know, or can find a way to read more about it. Notice how I've said nothing about raytracing, as I'm not here to "choose sides" on what technique will be better in the future (Though I believe raytracing is not ideal for game development.), no matter what my experience may be. It just seemed to me that people like Dev1032 and Truth amongst others seemed misinformed on what both entail, they actually shouldn't even be compared, but that's another story. I hope I've cleared up some things. I've been wanting to give some info on what the tech in both the PS3 and X360 practically entail, so you don't have only theoretic information to go on (as we've been working with both the console's dev kits, in mainly Holland and Germany at the moment), as I've found this quite frustrating in the past as well. Just want to let you guys know I know what you're all going through ;-). I'm sure all of you, no matter what console you decide on purchasing will be pleasently surprised in the months to come (watch out for the CES, I've never seen it so game based as this year!). A friend of mine working out of GB (I obviously cannot say in what capacity, or people will start guessing where.) can't shut up about the Revolution either, something hardware wise I'm not too familiar with, so I'm getting pretty excited about that too. Game on everyone! 74 -
About GTA NEXT-GENAsshole 01.03.2006 11:22 I heard that this game is gonna be announced and maybe playable at CES show.. also i got a question if somebody knows anything about this game like graphics or other aspects. 75 -
umm truthUnregistered - BK 01.03.2006 11:28 xbox 360 has 3 dual threaded general purpose cores. so thats 6 ahem not 3. 76 -
Unregistered - Patrick 01.03.2006 11:41 All MS has is Money, and the only reason they have it is due to their monopoly on Operating Systems. If there could be other OS for PC's, Microsoft would probably not make it, Windows is ok, but has alot of problems and could easily be beatin out of the Market. Sony has experience and have proven themselves time and time again, xbox only made it cause MS has money, they lost a ton of money on the first and never Profited from it and would have seriously hurt most companies, it only survived because MS has money as so many of you xbox fangirls keep pointing out. PS3 will look better than the xbox 2 when it comes out, it will look better than the xbox 2 in 2 years and it will look better than the xbox 2 in 6 years, and the xbox 2 will sell far less consoles once again due to the popularity and Power of the SONY PLAYSTATION 3. And hey, dont worry, Xbox 2 will survive because MS has money to waste and an ego to match. 77 -
gta IVUnregistered - BK 01.03.2006 11:54 it is named gta IV (4) because the moved in this order gta 1 gta london ( sequal 1) i think there was another one but still moving on cant remember gta 2 (2) gta III(3) vice city (3 sequal) san andreas (3 sequal) if you noticed both vice city and san andreas start with liberty city from gta 3. so it has been announced that the next one will be called gta IV. everything other than that has been only rumours but if youd like to check it out go here: http://www.gta4.net/ dont click gta ic just read the long black page with white font. and the 3rd last post i just finished reading it has some rich info and im glad to say that it cleared up alot of things for me personally. 78 -
i hate typosUnregistered - BK 01.03.2006 11:55 not ic its suppose to be sign...i dont know how i misspeleld it that bad! 79 -
To # 73Dev1032 01.03.2006 11:57 This is what I hate about this place, haveing to reply to morons like this, now you know why I dont reply here very often, this fool thinks he knows better than someone who has been in the buissiness for over 15 years now. Doom 3 is not raytraced where you get that bull from? LINK PLEASE! PS3 does raytrcing, X360 doesn't, I#d like to see you dispute that. Yes Microsoft patented Procedural Synthesis, does that mean Sony has to pay royalties to use it? NO! hard shee for Microsoft then hey, as far as graphics progression is concerned I can think of a number of different options which would better suit next gen hardware. 80 -
To # 73Dev1032 01.03.2006 12:38 OH! BTW did you know that PS3 can handle Procedural Synthesis without a restriction in cache, unlike X360? due to the 35gig bandwidth between Cell and RSX? go back to where you crawled from, I will talk to you when you learn the basics... well maybe beyond that, you will just have to wait and see. 81 -
hmmm...Unregistered - Akakage 01.03.2006 12:47 Its amazing how people get so worked up over a topic. Did anyone stop to check the source of this "NEWS". The source of this news is an IGN Forum. Not a press release..but a forum. Anybody can post anything on a forum, name drop a name that people know and claim it to be news. I personally will wait until there is ACTUAL GAMEPLAY footage...not a "real-time" render but actual gameplay before I decide to get all excited. The X360 games barely scratch the surface of that the X360 is capapble of and I expect great things from that console. PS3 looks to be truly amazing as well an I expect great things from that console as well. I just refuse to get excited of rumor and hear say. I really couldn't care less about which is "stronger". I'm sure they will be similiar in performance. Looking at the specs..they both have 3.2ghz cpus and 500mhz gpus (550 for sony). They are going to be alot closer to each other than PS2 and Xbox 1 were to one another. I'm more interested in what games are coming, when games are coming and how much of a dent in my wallet are said games gonna make. 82 -
hopefullyUnregistered - Akakage 01.03.2006 14:49 CES will hopefully show us some real PS3 stuff..so then finally rumor can give way to fact. PLEASE DMC4 gameplay footage at CES!! 83 -
#79, #80 Dev1032Unregistered - AvidGamer 01.03.2006 15:24 LOL, that dude you're replying to obviously knows a whole lot more than you dumbass, as you're talking out of your ass. Haha, damn kids coming in here acting like they know something just because they know how to copy and paste. Look at what the guy is talking about, you dumbass, of COURSE Doom 3 can be compared to raytracing, he was only talking about how it's used when creating textures and 3d images. OMG, do you even know what raytracing IS? And where does that guy ever talk about Sony? It's idiotic fanboys like you that piss me off, actually flaming the people that know what they're talking about. But then it get's really obvious how full of crap you are. The xbox360 has absolutely no restrictions in handlying Procedural Synthesis you moron, do you even know what's coming out of your mouth? The benefits of the size 1 MB L2 Cache (X360) versus the individual caches of the cell (which then have to be coordinated) and the fact that Xenos can reach all the way back into the cache to pull geometry directly comes to mind immediately ... In Cell all that is WORK on the part of the CPU, GPU and memory hence the need for all the bandwidth between the SPEs, the main memories and the RSX. PS3 might be able to do procedural synthesis well but it would be less efficient by design than X360. The Xenos actually is regularly able to do at least as much work as the RSX but needs less bandwidth in absolute terms (chip to chip) because more work is done internally in each chip. Based on this the RSX's bandwidth advantage is negated and in many ways diminished. Chip to chip bandwidth may be higher in PS3, but considerations such as efficiency (less work = less transistors) have to be considered simply becasue of differing designs. Maybe you should realise that Cell designers targetted an application not directly related to game production. It's more of a DSP or Media Processor than a general purpose CPU. Ken K says it's not a game machine and it shows. They want Cell to be in TV's, Settop boxes, big SETI@Home projects that use Cell's together over the internet. It's great for certain things and not for others. Intel and AMD also have great engineers, but they are targetting a different set of applications. The XCPU is really designed with game code in mind and it's unfortunately lost in all the techno babble. Notice I'm not saying that Cell is faster/slower when it comes to Procedural synthesis, (just in case you act like I've said things that I didn't like you did to the last guy.) as in my opinion it differs for both consoles. I for example partially agree (so far) with what Dean from Sony Computer Entertainment Europe has to say about the matter (Though everytime I realise he works for Sony I just remind myself we won't see the results until both consoles are at least a year in.), Here it is anyway: "Procedural synthesis involved making graphics (texture, geometry etc.) from small programs. Cell has better threading for small programs (each SPU is a thread) and more FLOPs, I can't see any major procedural method where XeCPU would win... XeCPU is better for bigger more complex programs (Lots of branching code with lots of data) but procedural models usually have neither (small code and data). XeCPU wouldn't be bad at it, but Cell is likely to get 2x-3x the performance in most cases of procedural synthesis IMHO." Notice how when it comes to Procedural synthesis that last guy is absolutely right, and all people working on the PS3 agree...? I like how you try to bring raytracing into it, like it has anything to do with it, and then actually have the audacity to know what you're talking about. Typical fanboy trailer trash. Hey, the real dev from #73! If you're still here, don't listen to the trailer trash and stay around so at least some people can have some useful tech discussions -_- 84 -
i dont understand thisUnregistered - BK 01.03.2006 18:34 he said "XeCPU is better for bigger more complex programs (Lots of branching code with lots of data)" i dont get how that is a bad thing...wouldnt this be actually better? i dunno but thats what it seems to me... 85 -
someone is watchingUnregistered - FreakyXMode 01.03.2006 19:00 Well said #83 AvidGamer, I too hate these stupid fanboys. They chase the real intelligent people away from these sites and discussions. AWAY WITH YOU EVILDOING FANBOYS! This goes out to BK, if you want to stop the typos, why not try typing slower? It works for me! 86 -
#84Unregistered - AvidGamer 01.03.2006 19:10 Procedural models generally have small code and data, hence the man's comments. Keep in mind I said I only partially agree with him, as there are things I've mentioned (That I haven't just deduced by myself, it's been stated by other tech geeks and developers) that this guy hadn't considered when writing this. Though he def. knows what he's talking about, having worked on every current gen console and seen the most recent PS3 dev kit (He's working on Heavenly Sword) and the final dev kits for the X360. #85 Thanks, I just felt bad for #73, as there was not a single biased thing in what he said, and it all def. made sense. Then people like that Dev1032 come along and not only misinterpret him (probably because they don't even know what the hell they're talking about), but then put the guy down. 87 -
Unregistered - GEV1l 01.03.2006 19:49 HEy dev1032 you say you been in the business for over 15 yrs? how about some credentials? THe guy said ray tracing is good for graphics like doom 3 not that doom3 was ray traced fool. I am more likely to believe someone who articulates themselve the way that person does over someone foulmouth bastard who insists that everyone who has a differing opinion is a dumbass. His explanations seems to show a better understanding of these techniques than your explanation. 88 -
Unregistered - GEV1L 01.03.2006 19:56 Back to topic, this guy reminds me of reading a newspaper and seeing an ad for a movie and splashed all over the ad are: "Two thumbs up!", " If you had to pick one movie to see this year make it this one" The Best movie of the year", need I go on? And yes I've always found g4 to be a bit biased but that is just me. I will be happy to play my x360 and get my ps3 when something that makes me want to buy it comes out for it. 89 -
real game demos pleaseUnregistered - WhatEverDude 01.03.2006 20:42 until Sony shows some real game demos all this stuff is null. where is the cheese?? bring it out if you have it? when CES is done I would love to see the faces of these Sony fanbots. You will get nothing to boast about. May be some movies of games. 90 -
Ha... no, sorry...Truth 01.03.2006 23:02 No games to date have true raytracing. You would need an immensely powerful processor to pull off the power needed to perfectly replicate the real life light projections on objects in a game. A console processor capable of more than a terraflop of processing power and a GPU capable of being fully utilized unlike another other before it. That is way only computer farms like the one used in rendering CGI movies like Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within are capable. And... an interesting fact... who developed FF: TSW? Sony. Who's developing the PS3? Oh wait, Sony. It's entirely plausible to believe games will be able to display graphics such as seen in CGI movies like Toy Story and FF: TSW now that multicore processors and GPU have been made. It's just that the 360 uses other methods. Like many developers have been saying, the PS3 has it's strengths and weaknesses just like the XBOX 360 has it's strength and weaknesses. As for raw somouting power though, the 360 does not even compare to the PS3. Disc storage? No candle to the PS3. Graphics? We'll have to wait and see... 91 -
lol thought so Unregistered - 360Basher 01.04.2006 00:04 i knew it from the beginning ps3 is way better, and dont say theyve only scratched the sruface, graphics will be extremly different because of the media size. more space to and texture and everything. so ha ha ha ha ha 92 -
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