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13 Dec 2005 12:20 | Webmaster | Playstation 3 PS3Today.com | Link to this article 
Sony’s Phil Harrison claims that the Xbox 360 "doesn't have true HD functionality," and that consumers seeking a HD experience will have to wait for the PS3 to arrive.
In an interview that will be published tomorrow over at GamesIndustry.biz, Harrison described the Xbox 360 as "a lot better than their [Microsoft's] first introduction to the console business," but questioned the console's claim to being a High Definition device. "The true definition of HD is the three elements of the HD value chain - the display, the content and the hardware to play back that content," he explained, "and PlayStation and Sony is the only organisation that has all three bits of the value chain together."
"As you well know," he continued, "the Xbox 360 doesn't play high definition movies and doesn't have true HD functionality - PlayStation 3 is the only format that has 1080-progressive, which is the true definition of HD, so it's really premature to be talking about the HD era."
"High definition as far as the consumer is concerned means high definition movies, which means Blu-Ray disc, and that is the reason that people will buy high definition displays coupled with a player that is capable of playing movies and games - which is obviously PlayStation 3," he claimed.
"The HD era really only starts when we are on the market," he concluded. Add Comment  1 -
sorryAndy 12.13.2005 12:29 Sorry Xbox fans to bad 2 -
Unregistered - travis 12.13.2005 12:33 ouch! 3 -
And PS3 lands a nice right gab to the 360Scythe 12.13.2005 12:36 PS3 stands on the 360 then spits on it's green X and then laughs at it's attempt to take ove Japan and claim it's HD. 4 -
Unregistered - ASSMONKEYbb 12.13.2005 12:59 they cant hear you, the xbox fans cant, they are too busy playing on the 360, which is out. You know, unlike the PS3, which isnt. And 1080i is just a tad bit less graphically than 1080p. The question is, why would you spend 3000-5000 $ on a high def tele if youre only gonna use it for games. Im gonna play it on my 32" analog Sharp television. Im still gonna enjoy the game and i only paid $300 for the dam tv. 5 -
PAUL CERULA 12.13.2005 13:09 Ohh come on this is pathetic. His statement says xbox 360 isn't next gen HD cause the 360 doesn't have a HD drive. How many HD movies are out right now and how many will be out in the next 5 years. That's right barely any. It's gonna take about 5 years and by that time the ps3 will be down to 200$ so you can just pick one up if your really into HD movies. 6 -
360 isnt HD readyUnregistered - Diamond 12.13.2005 13:37 Understanding that the 360 has component connections it is all factual to say that the 360 isnt really HD ready because it doesnt have a HDMI port. it may be said by many people that HD movies isnt out now but that was the same case with the PS2 and DVD. the bottomline is that the PS3 offers true HD (not specfically speaking of just 1080p) but it can play HD movies as well as display HD gaming at a higher frame rate. though many people do not have a HD television, I for one do. so when the PS3 comes out i would be able to enjoy (like many others) true HD gaming and once HD movies come out then i dont have to worry about buying another piece of hardware because i already have it in my PS3. certain gamers my ignore and/or downplay these facts but it isnt hard to tell that the PS3 has done everything to further highten your HD experience from all angles (HD gaming, HD movies, potentially higher framerates "up to 120FPS", dual HDMI for true HD connectivity, 1080p, panoramic viewing). the list can go on and on. 7 -
Scythe 12.13.2005 13:47 unlike the x-box 1 the ps2 still has sweet games to be played. Shadow of the Col. is one I havn't had time playing. Also all good things come to those who wait. 8 -
i said....Unregistered - rtfakktor 12.13.2005 13:55 damn! screw all the xbox fangirls and there ebay theivery, it is truly the xbox 1.5 9 -
GTA: LCS used to exploit firmware v2.5Unregistered - hardwood2001 12.13.2005 13:57 wow just think about sony's online plans, which is about equal to nothing really, but think what the psp might do to the ps3... viruses, cracks and hacks right out the gate. GTA: LCS used to exploit firmware v2.5 http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000570072348/ 10 -
Watch out MS,We are the Playstation Nation!Dark Samurai 12.13.2005 14:15 Xbox360 is no match for PS3 in hardware department,that's a fact and i'm really proud of Sony because of that. But MS still has the upper hand in online strategy (XBLive) and developement ease (XNA studio). Sony must improve the PS3 in these areas and hopefully still there is enough time. MS can't improve their hardware now but Sony can improve their software and online and i'm sure they'll do it. 11 -
360 HD abilityBillGatesSucks 12.13.2005 15:01 What Harrison forgot to mention was that the 360 doesn't support 1080p simply because it doesn't have the power to do so. Actually I'll be surprised to see any developers for the 360 pushing their products to support 1080i. But the main fact is MS decided against an HD optical drive for the 360 and that is what holds it back from being a true HD unit. So, what, you're going to hook a 360 up to an HDTV to see your games in HD (IF the games are supported for it) when the drive won't play HD movies? Hmmmmm. Movies on HD disks won't be long in coming, in fact many studios will be publishing movies in both HD and standard res. on one disk (for those without an HD player) within a year. This is not my opinion, this is fact. And HDTVs are not that pricey anymore - I saw a new 30" Toshiba HDTV going for $699. But I have to admit I can understand MS not opting for the HD drive - the format they were originally going to support HD DVD is most likely going to tank before it even comes out due to lack of support and the only other option is the blu ray which is of course developed by Sony. And I doubt MS wants anything made by Sony in its machine (although Sony did create DVD). 12 -
PAUL CERULA 12.13.2005 15:03 Kurama, Sony's already officially announced they're not going to have a unified online....which means you'll have to individually port your own games and the service and performance will basically be complete crap compared to xbox live. Sinc the ps3 is illegidly launching in 4 months they don't anywhere near enough time to get a unified online up. 13 -
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZUnregistered - Oblivion 12.13.2005 15:05 Who gives a crap about DVDs.If anyone buys the ps3 for its HD DVDs they are a fools.im sure that everyone here has at least oneJust use dvd player.Not once have i ever used my ps2 or xbox for dvds.Oh,and the 360 is HD.The ps3 will look better but its bull to say that. 14 -
commenting to mr.ZZZZZZZZZZZUnregistered - thirst 12.13.2005 15:30 dont be mad man. you can by your 360 if you want. if you want a system that is the same price as the PS3 ($400) and not get as many features than go ahead, this is your choice. just because YOU never used your PS2 for a DVD drive doesnt mean that I havent. also, YOU'll have the option of playing these HD movies without having to buy another 300-400 dollar piece of equipment again. this is what you fanboys do all the time. instead of trying to state facts you just try to diss and make a mockary of out of it. face it; bill gates gave up on the 360 when he didnt install the HD-dvd not just for movie playback (if it happened to fail with the movie industry) but for a next gen format to issue their game disc on. and for the record the 360 IS NOT true HD...just understand that. P.S. if the 360 would have had the HD-DVD and blu-ray would have failed you fanboys would have been all over that fact. but that isnt the case. what is REALLY the case is that the xbox company is not, and i repeat IS NOT a profitable company. microsoft has not made one dollar in profit my friend. xbox since its existence has been at a loss. the only difference between xbox and dreamcast is that bill gates is the richest man in the world and he owns xbox....period. 15 -
Unregistered - J ALLARDD 12.13.2005 15:48 Harrison is right, we were fools to drop those options from XO, now we understand. But with xbox2160 we are sure to beat Sony Playstation 9 if we are lucky enough and we are still a company. We have already started to make a top secret processor named lleC. It has 8 UPS prosessors and one EPP-unit. We have also started to develop a top secret garphics unit XSR. 16 -
Hmm...Unregistered - Hmm... 12.13.2005 15:49 Spartan, youre flogging a dead horse. Besides, I highly enjoy PS2 online at the moment, so I dont really care about the so called Xbox live. 17 -
Unregistered - Huxley 12.13.2005 16:00 I'm going to decline from saying something so obvious. 18 -
Spartan of 777Dark Samurai 12.13.2005 16:16 May be they change their mind and go for a unified system in future.As i remember XBL was introduced a year or two after the launch of the Xbox. I'm a Sony fan not a fanboy.XBL is a very nice feature, i agree. But i don't think it's that decisive.Sony's online can be improved and be good without being unified. The games matter the most.Killzone,MGS4,MotorStorm,DMC4,GTA4,GT5,Tekken6....plus the huge popularity and power of the Playstation brand,These are Sony's main weapons.Is the Xbox360 able to produce that level of quality? I doubt it until i see a game like MGS4 on 360. 19 -
Unregistered - Silverback 12.13.2005 16:19 How many of the vast majority of the gamers across the world will actually care that the PS3 plays HD movies? Most likely very few. You all forget before you can appreciate Blue Ray you have to own an HD Tv. Not only that but to appreciate 1080P you will have to fork out very large amounts of cash for the very latest TV's. The point I am trying to make is that very few Americans let alone the rest of the worlds population own HD TV's or will in the next 5 years let alone 1080p quality sets. So most likely by the time HD TV's are vogue the next generation of consoles will have arrived. So most consumers aren't going to be playing Blue Ray movies on the PS3, at least over the next five years. In a hurry sorry for the garbled nature of the post. 20 -
All RightChronocom 12.13.2005 16:20 OOOO Taht's got to hurt the crap box 360 fans, I don't care if I have to wait for the ps3, At least I'm getting a GOOD console (unlike the xbox 360 fanboys got.) 21 -
PS3 Will RockUnregistered - Fanboy:-) 12.13.2005 16:25 That's all you have to know!!! :-) 22 -
Patrick 12.13.2005 16:30 Man, so many well spoken comments about how great the PS3 is, I dont think I need to say a thing, Except I will anyway. Someone said Blu-ray movies wont be out for a long time, and I say WRONG. Look at the PSP with UMD movies. They can only be played on the PSP and yet so many are coming out and most new to DVD movies are also on PSP at the same time. Now take the PS3, a system than will sell more systems than the PSP did and quicker, and also launch Blu-ray players from 80-90 percent of Electronic Companies and blu-ray movies from 80-90% of Studios and launch The PS3 in the same time frame which will be a Blu-ray player much cheaper than other players and you have alot of High def products for Blu-ray that will spread faster than you can imagine. 360 fans dont believe me, hide and watch. 23 -
to comment 12Havoc 12.13.2005 16:49 Hey Spartan just stop it with this non unified crap if the developer takes the time and effort, the online experience can be on par with live. You don't know what online features the ps3 will have that the ps2 didn't such as A microphone, or a IP camera. You can praise xbox live but you can't say ps3 online is going to suck because you don't know what it's capable of. 24 -
.Unregistered - . 12.13.2005 16:56 dont be mad man. you can by your 360 if you want. if you want a system that is the same price as the PS3 ($400) and not get as many features than go ahead, this is your choice. just because YOU never used your PS2 for a DVD drive doesnt mean that I havent. also, YOU'll have the option of playing these HD movies without having to buy another 300-400 dollar piece of equipment again. this is what you fanboys do all the time. instead of trying to state facts you just try to diss and make a mockary of out of it. face it; bill gates gave up on the 360 when he didnt install the HD-dvd not just for movie playback (if it happened to fail with the movie industry) but for a next gen format to issue their game disc on. and for the record the 360 IS NOT true HD...just understand that. P.S. if the 360 would have had the HD-DVD and blu-ray would have failed you fanboys would have been all over that fact. but that isnt the case. what is REALLY the case is that the xbox company is not, and i repeat IS NOT a profitable company. microsoft has not made one dollar in profit my friend. xbox since its existence has been at a loss. the only difference between xbox and dreamcast is that bill gates is the richest man in the world and he owns xbox....period. This is a very true statement How many of the vast majority of the gamers across the world will actually care that the PS3 plays HD movies? Most likely very few. You all forget before you can appreciate Blue Ray you have to own an HD Tv. Not only that but to appreciate 1080P you will have to fork out very large amounts of cash for the very latest TV's. The point I am trying to make is that very few Americans let alone the rest of the worlds population own HD TV's or will in the next 5 years let alone 1080p quality sets. So most likely by the time HD TV's are vogue the next generation of consoles will have arrived. So most consumers aren't going to be playing Blue Ray movies on the PS3, at least over the next five years. This is very incorrect. HD TV's will dramtically increase in sales. Especially since soon the goverment will require TV station to broadcast in both formats. Secondly, most people who have $500+ to blow on the PS3 or 360 will eventually own an HD TV (if they don't already own one) unless of course they are stupid and don't want to see the full potenial of either console. Futhermore I don't think the whole entire movie industry is backing Blue-Ray 5 years in advance, don't be so ignorant. Lastly you started your comment with "majority of gamers". You may find this hard to believe but not every single person who owns a PS2 or XBOX etc... is a hardcore gamer. Therefore by offering more features they can try to get money from people who normally not buy a game console such as a movie buff or a techy person. The 360 on the other hand offers nothing new other than it's gaming experience. I am not bashing the 360 but for Sony who makes TV's Audio etc it is a good idea for them to push a product that can be used with all their other ones, not a stupid idea. Thats like saying how many people own a PC and dont use it for video games. Well guess what...it sure doesn't hurt that you CAN use if for video game if you want to. 25 -
OUCH, hear that Spartan?Retard 12.13.2005 16:59 read Kurama's notation, it is true; SCE(A) could switch to a Unified. Either way, i don't want to dish money out for a online service or for that matter have a online service. I'd rather play with R-E-A-L people and R-E-A-L friends. (cough...halo...junkies....cough) 26 -
#24Retard 12.13.2005 17:08 Any business is a profitable business, so magic #24 who seems to watch the money flow; it's called advertisin and investing. Which in this case makes up for a gap of profitable decline by some margins (from an unsuccessful attempt with Xbox [1]) By in large the software company shifted towards a conventionally standard DVD drive (Saves $, go figure?) The techology is there, all they needed was the money and patience. They decided by beating competition to the dead line would gain for there favor, and it might just work. -slightly off topic, sorry. 27 -
i just dont understand you guysUnregistered - BK 12.13.2005 17:09 why are you guyz fighting over this i mean it sur money that ur using if ur getting a ps3 good for you and if ur getting a 360 good for you. IN MY OPINION 360 and ps3 are the same thing all around ps2 had a cpu of 250 mhz or something while xox had 733...was ther a difference NO did people say ps2 sucks and xbox rocks because of that NO. sure you can put a blu-ray drive but dont forget microsoft is a software company...you would think that a software company would know how much space they would need in the future... by the way you guyz are making such a big deal out of blu-ray maxell is releasing a new format which holds 300GB by the end of 2006...oh no watch out ps3 people here comes a new console with 300 gb of high definition lol. by the way ther is really nothing wrong with extra dvd's for one game...and sure you can have a 50 gb game but (dont kill me because of this its just opinion) the rsx is not such a next generation graphic card sure you can say wow ps3 has a better cpu but when the ram and gpu run short ther the same thing. Since i dont want to go through ur forums to find this ill just say it here...ps3 is running at 3.2 ghz so is 360 so dont say like oh ps3 is running 3.2 x 7= watever it doesnt work like that. Both systems are the same all around and this statement was just said against when 360 said it had a slightly better system...their both the same and all games can go on both consoles no need to fight about the extra 0.00002 ghz cpuon the htu 300 of the ps3 there both the same get it through both of ur ps3 fanboy and 360 fanboy head... 28 -
Dev1032 12.13.2005 17:18 From what I've read about X360 and heard, X360 isnt true hi-def, it uses compression techniques, which degrade the real HD quality you should be seeing. HD compression techniques are like useing MP3 music files, less quality sound than the original source, the only difference is you will notice the quality more in a picture than you will with sound. 29 -
-- Deleted by Mod --Unregistered - 12.13.2005 17:35 -- Deleted and Banned by Mod -- 30 -
to #24Unregistered - Silverback 12.13.2005 17:58 You forget that there will be a battle between Blue Ray and HD DVD for at least 2-3 years if not longer. This will only serve to slow the penatration of and HD DVD format. Look how long it took for DVD to really take off, now consumers have to invest not only in a DVD player but they will have to buy a new TV and pay more, at least in the beginning, for the cost of Blue Ray discs. No, I think that the real explosion of the HD era will not be for at least another few years. Additionally, there are a number of other formats being developed in places like China that HD DVD and Blue Ray will have to contend with. This is partly why many people believe that Blue Ray, if it becomes the dominant format, will only be a transitional format to something even better. 31 -
HD era..whateverUnregistered - Akakage 12.13.2005 18:08 In order to "truly" experience the HD era one would have to go out and spend a couple thousand dollars on a HD tv that supports 1080p. Doesn't really make that much of a difference to me. The game is gonna look great no matter what. I'm gonna spend $400-$500 on a PS3 (the price range hasn't been determined yet) $60-$70 on a single game (blu-ray price not confirmed yet) and then $3200 or so to play said $60-$70 game?? Doesn't make much economic sense to me. I have a flat-screen TV that supports S-Video and Component hook ups now...I'll be D@MNED before I go out and spend MainNewsBlogCom,000 or so on a new TV just so I can have 1080p and not notice a difference. They are throwing around "HD" this and "HD era" that to sell TV's plain and simple. Sony themselves said the same thing at E3. The PS3's main goal isn't distribution of Blu-Ray or games..its to Sell Televisions. That's why they are always talking about "HD" this and "HD" that. At E3 before you saw any PS3 tech-demos you got a 10-15 minute video on HD and HDTVs. Anyone who went to E3 this year, and stood in that long line at Sony's booth knows what I'm talking about. M$oft is no better...they partner with Samsung "the official TV of the X360". Its all to sell TV's. That's why "HD" is always one of their main topics. Ken Kutarugi was passed over and "demoted" because he failed to push the sony brand as the leader of all consumer electronics...something like that. Doesn't make sense when Kutarugi is the "father" of playstation. He was the head of the PS department as well as consumer electronics I believe. He sold millions of PS2 but since he didn't sell enough TV's, stereos and whatever else he was passed over and part of his job was taken away. U can believe the "HD" hype if you want to...more power to you...but all that means absolutely nothing to me. If I don't play DMC4 in 1080p..I won't lose any sleep over it. 32 -
non-unifiedBill Gates 12.13.2005 18:17 I hope Sony sticks with the non-unified online service. I enjoy my privacy when it comes to playing games online. I don't want everyone knowing when I’m on, what game I’m playing, or how many buddies I have. Microsoft is turning Online gaming into some sort of Instant Messenger. I personally don’t like SOME of the features on Xbox Live. But than again that’s just my opinion. And yes I’ve always felt this way about it. I’m not just saying this because Sony announced a non-unified online service. 33 -
PAUL CERULA 12.13.2005 18:24 Like I've said Sony's ps3 is very ambitious but not completely practical. Blu-ray, ok great format but won't be used for anything else other than video games for at least 5 years ----- that's even if it becomes the primary source More than 60fps -- ridiculous and pointless for Sony to bother cause you can't notice the difference -- publicity stunt anybody Two HDTV slots -- good but not at all practical...your gonna appease 1% of the market for 5 years until the next console. Very few people have 2 hdtvs 1080p -- 1080p HDTV's are super expensive for only a little more performance and again too far ahead of its time for the mass market. Overall I think if sony would of stuck with one HDTV slot, 1080i, and Blu-ray their console would of been considerably cheaper and still very next gen. Sony's just gearing their console's potential to rich people and in the next 5 years that's the only people who will completely enjoy it. 34 -
-- Deleted by Mod --Bill Gates 12.13.2005 18:50 -- Deleted by Mod -- It was deleted due to being completely off-topic. Instead, try submitting it as a news story. 35 -
Spartan give it upBill Gates 12.13.2005 19:00 Spartan give it up kid. People all over the world know what the better buy is going to be. Unified or not, Sony's going to wipe the floor with Microsoft. It's only a matter of time now, when the Xbox 360 begins to fade away from the public eye. Mark my words people, the xbox360 will see a price drop quicker than that of the GameCube. Nothing against the Big "N". Sony and Nintendo, all the way form me. In these two platforms is where the real innovation is @. 36 -
Unregistered - Con 12.13.2005 19:12 No offense MS users but I always get burned by Microsoft with their software and their consoles, they've used the price drop tatic before and let me tell you I'm not buying that act anymore. 37 -
lameboxUnregistered - gaming biatch 12.13.2005 19:17 Nothing would make me happier than to see Microsoft come in at dead last in this console war, and than completely drop out. But that's not gonna happen so I'll just root for Sony and Nintendo. 38 -
Unregistered - Con 12.13.2005 19:48 Oh Spartan your either dumb or seem to be in denial. 39 -
#38Bill Gates 12.13.2005 20:09 I think you hit the nail on the head that time. He is totally in denial. You have to hand it to the kid, he really does want to beleive in the 360. Sony's hardware, its software, and its simple display of confidence in its own product have completely outclassed Microsoft. My money's on Sony. All Sony did was show what it showed at E3 and the rest is in the history books of gaming. I predict that the PS3 will ship out over 100 million units quicker than the PS2. I'll buy the 360 when it sells for $99 in a year or two. 40 -
Unregistered - Tim 12.13.2005 20:12 just priced out 1080p hdtv set no thanks it cost more then my car i dont think many people can afford it.the guy at the store said you cant notice a difference until you hit 60 inch screen or bigger. even the 720p were a little pricey the xbox 360 is probaly a better bet for me I dont think I will ever own 1080p hdtv set 41 -
#33 Spartan (again)Bill Gates 12.13.2005 20:23 "Blu-ray, ok great format but won't be used for anything else other than video games for at least 5 years ----- that's even if it becomes the primary source" --now you're saying it's a great format? make up your mind!...It's the best format. You will start to see movies in Blu-Ray format in 2006,..make some sense. "More than 60fps -- ridiculous and pointless for Sony to bother cause you can't notice the difference -- publicity stunt anybody" --well Sony WILL bother because the hardware can do it. "Two HDTV slots -- good but not at all practical...your gonna appease 1% of the market for 5 years until the next console. Very few people have 2 hdtvs" --Unlike Microsoft, Sony is thinking into the future with this system. HDTVs are quickly going down in prices. In 2 years they will be even more afortable to the point where you will beging to see homes having more than just one in the house. I think this will be a great asset to the PS3 for Online future gaming. Don't hate! "1080p -- 1080p HDTV's are super expensive for only a little more performance and again too far ahead of its time for the mass market." --Again Sony is thinking years ahead, unlike Microsft who can't even think into next week. "Overall I think if sony would of stuck with one HDTV slot, 1080i, and Blu-ray their console would of been considerably cheaper and still very next gen. Sony's just gearing their console's potential to rich people and in the next 5 years that's the only people who will completely enjoy it." --Overall you should be working for Microsoft with the way you think. You're worse than Peter Moore. I understand that you're bitter because you think the PS3 will be out of your budget, but hold on a second and let Sony anounce the price for the PS3 before making any more stupid ASSumptions! 42 -
Harrison's claims are valid...Furious 12.13.2005 20:36 Microsoft's choice of DVD is going to create some big hurdles to overcome. I would like to see how they plan to release games with true HD resolutions and HD CG visual without using compression... Dev mentioned this above using compression has negative effects on the visuals, it's a known fact. Don't get me wrong the 360 will have impressive visuals, but compression will need to be implemented to prevent 2 to 4 disk to hold the large data files. The decision to use DVD could be a choice the 360 can't overcome. Food for thought.... 43 -
hmm..Unregistered - Akakage 12.13.2005 20:37 Actually I think that Sony is thinking so far in the future because they plan for the PS3 to have a very long shelf life. It was circulating around E3 and has been posted on a few sites that Sony plans for the PS3 to be around for 10 years before they release a successor. Now if their competitors come out with something new..that dwarfs PS3 then of course they will release a new console..but Sony plans on PS3 being "THE" playstation console for the next 10 years or however long it takes for HDTV and Blu-Ray sales to pick up. Take ur pick. Msoft is already planning on the successor to X360. So because their 360 plans don't seem as long term as sony's doesn't mean they don't have plans. They didn't get to be the biggest software company in the world with no strategy. Both consoles are gonna be good..I have a X360..loving it..I will get a PS3...but I ain't buying a new 1080p super expensive TV for either one of these consoles. "HD ERA" is code for buy a new Trinitron from Sony..or buy a new plasma from Samsung. Won't make or break ur gaming experience. 44 -
hearts will either be broken or won on these dates.Bill Gates 12.13.2005 20:46 is it January 5th,6th,7th, or 8th yet? 45 -
360 down underUnregistered - Ps3 fan 12.13.2005 21:07 Haha I'm glad the Sony's Reggie is showing its color's. Harrison has been kicking Arse and taking names.PS3 will cater to the HD era. 46 -
Unregistered - ninja0327 12.13.2005 21:09 to #42 that comment about ps3 lasting 10 yrs is how they are saying "theys still life in ps2 despite the arrival of ps3" the ps3 will be outdated in 5 to 6 yrs from now in terms of hardware but the produciton of games for the game will continue and the improvwmnt in graphics will continue becuase right now thats when we are seeing ps2 true graphics through games like god of war, RE4, shadow of collessus 47 -
my mistakeUnregistered - ninja0327 12.13.2005 21:13 ment # 43 48 -
PAUL CERULA 12.13.2005 22:09 Bill Gates, no way Bill do I think that the ps3 will be too expensive. It will be at the same price as the xbox 360 premium -- 400.00$ with just the console and controller. That's my prediction. Considering the blu-ray format is NOT DEFINATE and could still change to something else like hd-dvd. Yeah sony's pushing the limits....I know this and didn't deny it. I just don't think that this console will serve the mass market until 4-5 years from now. Yeah that's a long time but how many people are going to shell out 2,000 bucks for a 1080p or just 500 for a decent HDTV. The prices aren't going to drop dramatically it will take time just like flat panels are doing now. People won't bother with HDTV's inless their very dedicated to the video games. In my opinion getting a ps3 or 360 without an HDTV is NOT A GOOD IDEA. Your missing so much if you don't. If you can't afford around 1,000 (400+600) for a decent set up than your wasting your time and should wait till the ps3, 360 and hdtv's come down in price. If you can't make the commitment to both the hdtv and next gen system DON'T BOTHER. And sadly a lot of people are going to just get a PS3 and run it off of 480 TV. In which they'll decide a year later to buy an hdtv. If you can't buy both wait a year till the prices drop 49 -
To #24Unregistered - undisputed2k6 12.13.2005 22:12 "This is very incorrect. HD TV's will dramtically increase in sales. Especially since soon the goverment will require TV station to broadcast in both formats. " Thats is also incorrect. The goverment will require stations to broadcast in Digital signals ....not HD ...theirs a big difference in the two. 50 -
HDTV etc.BillGatesSucks 12.14.2005 00:45 I think the HDTV era is going to be here much sooner than some of you (i.e. Spartan) are predicting. Satellite and most cable tv services are already digital and most broadcast a high percentage of their product in HD as well, so it's not going to be 5+ years before it takes off. As I and others have mentioned before, HD dvd movies will be on the market in abundance by next year in the form of a dual format (HD and standard) disk. And if you've been paying attention to the market, the prices on HDTVs has been dropping quickly. Admittedly, a 60" HDTV is going to be more than most people are willing to spend on a TV, but right now a 30" HDTV is well within most anyone's range. Sony is smart to have the blu ray, it's going to be a big selling point because not only will the customer have a next gen console, but when they're ready to pop for an HDTV set (if they don't have one already) they'll already have an HD player - no need to spend the extra cash on another player like the 360 owner will have to do. MS made a big mistake not having an HD optical drive partly because of this reason and also because of what I and others have already mentioned, the problem of a medium without sufficient storage space. This is already causing problems for MS with compression issues slowing the process down. Plus there's the fact that the 360's HD signal isn't even true HD in that it's not produced as part of the gaming process but as a type of post-rendering where the signal is stretched out i.e. distorted to fit the HD size. Oh, and to the poster who said the 360 and the PS3 are the same because their CPUs are both clocked at 3.2 GHz, that's only a small part of it. Look up the specs on each CPU and see for yourself what each can do. Sony are the ones innovating the market. MS waits for the market to change before producing their next product. 51 -
Unregistered - G 12.14.2005 00:52 last time i checked 720p and 1080i were considered HD. about 5% of tv owners, own an hdtv. less than 1% of those hdtv owners own one that can support 1080p. not a lot of people are willing to pay $1200-3000 for an hdtv, let alone a $7000+ for a 1080p hdtv. price do go down, but were still talking in the thousands here. by the time 1080p's price drops, xbox1080's and ps4's will probably already be available 52 -
Unregistered - G 12.14.2005 00:55 where exactly did you read that the xbox 360 upscales its frames to 720p? 53 -
Unregistered - Doh! 12.14.2005 00:57 So what he is saying is 1080p is the only real HD and you cant experience HD unless you have a 5000+ 1080p Sony Grand Wega Tv, a PS3 and movies on Blueray disk. I agree that Xbox360 in not a total HD machine because of the lack of a Highdef DVD format but the games are definaty HD. Sony is lucky they have plastation, the only Sony electronics device I own and that comes only because of its great game support. As for TVs, Sony is dominated, much more bang for the buck with something like Samsung HDTVs (I have 2 of um). Sony HAs the new Grand Wega 1080p but for a price. I could buy a 65in 1080p Samsung DLP with 10000:1 Dynamic contrast for the same price but there is no insentive to drop five grand for 1080p. with only a hand full of HD programming and none in 1080p. If PS3 delivers it will be the only insentive for a while. Still not enough to drop the massive amount of cash. 1080p is no where near mainstreem. I enjoy my Playstation but everthing is is outclassed BS. 54 -
Unregistered - correction 12.14.2005 01:00 ^correction last line. i ment to type everything else is outclassed BS. 55 -
Unregistered - yurr 12.14.2005 01:05 its all an attempt to slow down xbox 360 sales 56 -
Fact is 360 Output is not true HD standardFurious 12.14.2005 01:12 The Xbox 360 has enough system bandwidth and main memory to handle 1280x720 game assets or material. It’s the 10MB of EDRAM (IMO) that hampers it from achieving a true internal GPU rendering of 1280x720p resolution. With 10MB already being borderline for 1280x720 resolution; and then adding in post processing effects (AA, AF, ECT…), that 10MB is more of a bottleneck than a advantage. Now if it had at least 15-18MB of EDRAM then there shouldn’t be a problem of handling the resolution along with the post processing effects. Anyhow, optimally you’re looking at 1024x540 or 1280x520 resolution with post processing effects from the Xenos GPU then the data (video) being sent to the video chip to be scaled at 1280x720 resolution. Where’s the PS3 doesn’t need the assistance of the video chip to achieve 720p or 1080p (as far as I know). Will we be able too tell the difference between the PS3 and Xbox 360 respective versions of the 720p format? That heavily depends on the game source material or game assets (textures and so fourth) that are being used. If the game material or assets are 1280x720; then the PS3 shouldn’t have a problem displaying the full beauty of it. In the Xbox 360 case two things can happen...The developer can chose to reduce the source material to fit the internal render; thus saving memory bandwidth and allowing the video chip to scale the end result to 1280x720. Or they can use the same source material, thus allowing the GPU to render it at the lower resolution, then sending it to the video chip for the end result of 1280x720. The first Xbox 360 option will yield some major graphical differences if the original source material is scaled back; however if the second option is chosen then the effect wouldn’t be so dramatic compared to the PS3. Either way PS3 doesn’t have to deal with these pesky little bottlenecks that the EDRAM memory brings to the Xbox 360. 57 -
Unregistered - 12.14.2005 02:07 . 58 -
Spartan~~Retard 12.14.2005 05:53 Well, having a 400$ system is better then my computer at this point; because my GPU cost me 500$ alone. Sony is making PS3 with 1080p because they want to express there 7,000$ TV a tad more, YES they are expessive ... at least for now, it's a secured investment because these TV will eventually become standard. My 55'' flat wide screen LG costs me nearly 6,995$ when it came out. Now it's nearly half of that. 59 -
why hdtv tv?Unregistered - r 12.14.2005 07:10 when u can hook up the ps3 or x360 to u standart monitor, flat crt or lcd, for like 150-250$ ? no problem for a flat crts have 2048*1536 to display 1080p ,or when the console comes to childrens room with a 1600*1200 19" lcd for 200$ with 720p no problems. 60 -
MEDIA PCUnregistered - JMC7098 12.14.2005 07:58 Are people forgeting that the XBOX 360 is an extention to your Windows Media PC and will stream HD DVD movies from your PC. 61 -
yea what everUnregistered - leon 12.14.2005 08:07 why does sony insist in bashing M$ at every step ??? do they have something to worry about ??? (me thinks so) and seeing as 99.9% of tv's dont support 1080p whats the point in having it? and the ones that do cost around £12000 (is mommy and daddy gonna get one for little jimmys bedroom so he can play the new jak and daxter .....er no !) you sony idiots sayint that 720p and 1080i are not HD and that 1080p is ,just makes me laugh. you remind me of the rats following the pied piper and we all know what happened to them dont we??? so go on dance to kens tune ....fools. 62 -
#42Unregistered - leon 12.14.2005 08:17 I WILL BET YOU £100 RIGHT NOW THAT THE FISRT WAVE OF PS3 GAMES WILL COME ON DVD (IF NOT ALL OF THEM) WHY???? BECAUSE OF COST. IF A 360 GAME COST 49.99 AND THATS ON DVD . HAZARD A GUESS AT THE SAME GAME ON A BLURAY DISC. ADD ANOTHER 20 QUID (AT A GUESS) AND I AM SERIOUS ABOUT THAT BET. (IT WILL BE LIKE TAKING CANDY FROM A BABY) 63 -
Their's no Hd Era for MsUnregistered - Con 12.14.2005 09:16 Not only are you MS users ignorant your making wild guesses, the whole reason I'm not going to be here anymore is because, I've already read major magazines and their not praising Microsoft or their consoles. The fact of the matter is that MS shot themselves in the foot with the whole cheap price tag tactic, I mean if the games suffer because of conpression techniques just think what's going to happen in the future. I used to be an surporter of MS and thought they would improve but they've given me nothing but disappointments the whole HD thing for Ms is crippling the current games they have already. 64 -
Unregistered - Moe 12.14.2005 09:39 This is EXACTLY why I WILL buy the PS3. Sony thinks ahead. Sounds like the PS3 will deliver for years to come. 65 -
#46..ps3 for the long haulUnregistered - Akakage 12.14.2005 09:44 There was talk around E3 that sony wasn't going to release another console in 10yrs meaning that the PS3 would be the only PS console on the market for the next 10yrs. 1.) I think it was more hype than substance..because by stating this they are claiming that PS3 is so advanced that they don't need to release a new console. It wasn't the same as saying there will "still be life in the PS3". Probably more hype than anything else. PS3's GPU will be obsolete before it is released, but nobody has anything that can top the cell...yet. Another reason for this 10yr claim was that developers will still be getting more performance out of the PS3 even that far down the road. Then you have to figure the billions they spent in R&D on the Cell, Blu-Ray, licensing Nvidia...etc. 1080p means squat without a TV that supports it. Like I said before its all a plot to sell more HDTVs and help establish Blu-Ray. It will look just as good on the TV I have now, just like my X360. 66 -
-- Deleted by Mod --Unregistered - QuietMan69 12.14.2005 09:58 -- Deleted by Mod -- 67 -
Unregistered - Wired 12.14.2005 10:09 I'm not going by the hype I'm just being smart, it seems to me you guys went by the hype, I'm just waiting to see what happens I have no intention of buying an next gen console right now. Anyone who's dumb enough to buy the first console out because of an trailer is a real idiot. 68 -
Unregistered - Wired 12.14.2005 10:15 I've seen reviews for most of the games for MS console and their getting no so good scores, the only thing their saying is that the games have pretty graphics, the only game that stood out is Call of Duty 2. 69 -
Unregistered - Wired 12.14.2005 10:55 Well I'm going to be gone for awhile too many speculation with no accurate information from you Ms fanboys is pretty ridiciolous even for me. 70 -
Stop arguing!!!Unregistered - Oblivion 12.14.2005 11:03 Its all about the games.Im getting the 360 because of Halo3,KOTOR3,Fable2,Ninja Gaiden2,Saints Row,Gears of War,Ghost Recon,ES:Oblivion etc. . Im also sure that the 360 will bring out some other great games. Im gonna get the ps3 because GTA(i know it will be on the 360 but i cant wait 9 months),God of War2,Heavanly Sword,MGS etc. Im also sure the ps3 will have a load of other great games. The 360 has more games for my taste.Although i will have to get the ps3 as well. The 360 will win in 2 areas.(1)Games(not by much)(2)Live. The ps3 will win in (1)Graphics(not by much) (2)Disc capacity (blu ray). The rest will be very close.I thik Peter Moore was right insaying that both consoles are superior in different areas. 71 -
Unregistered - Biff 12.14.2005 11:13 Sorry Oblivion by I'm not buying your story and I'm not waiting to buy the 360 and I don't care for it either, if MS did a good job with your console I wouldn't be complaining right now. 72 -
Unregistered - Jack 12.14.2005 12:49 what a bunch of whiners just buy what ever makes you happy and stop complaining. 73 -
.....launch titlesUnregistered - Akakage 12.14.2005 13:12 I can't remember a console release where every launch title got FANTASTIC reviews? PS2 the best and highest reviewed launch title was SSX..everything else...mediocre or horrid reviews. Dreamcast..best launch title was the phenominal Soul Calibur..everything else mediocre or horrid reviews. Xbox..one word...HALO...everything else got mediocre or Horrid Reviews. X360 released with PDZ, Call of Duty and NBA2k which all got decent reviews..everything else...mediocre or horrid reviews. 90% of the titles release on X360 are ports of current gen games. PDZ was scheduled for current xbox as was Kameo..so really only Ridge RAcer..and possibly Call of Duty..which might be a PC port are the only non-ports. PS3 I'm sure will get some ports too..especially if they are sticking with spring. Most consoles start to hit their stride months after launch, this is how its always been. But hey if you get u an HDTV that supports 1080p this will make all ur PS3 launch games that much better cuz its the HDera....(yeah right). Back on topic..I still really can understand what the big deal about HD. The green will still be green, Batman Begins will still be Batman begins on either TV. Its almost like its a cult or something. My picture is already clear..and my X360 games look fantastic. When PS3 is released my PS3 will look equally as fantastic on my TV. Will 1080p really make my gaming experience so much more wonderful?? H#!L NO it won't!!!! 74 -
SadUnregistered - Jim 12.14.2005 13:23 A lot of people on this site are truely pathetic. Not really HD this..Not really next gen that. Shut Up and play the damn games. If you don't want it don't buy it but don't say stupid S*it about a piece of electronic equipement. This has literaly made my stomach turn as I was trying to get some "realistic" info on a product. 75 -
-- Deleted by Mod --Unregistered - leon 12.14.2005 13:25 -- Deleted by Mod -- 76 -
just wait.. trust me.Unregistered - some guy from Sony 12.14.2005 13:34 Just wait until the announcement next month. Once you all have had enough of Christmas... There will be announcements to make you feel like a kid at christmas again. Oh yeah, and guys.. Many people have asked who owns a HDTV capable of showing 1080p... Think about this... You are looking at a display capable of that right now. (yes your monitor). 77 -
true HDBillGatesSucks 12.14.2005 15:29 Post #52 asked where I read about the 360 upscaling the output to 720p, just follow this link: http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000393067805/ And here's a link to an interview with Allard about 360 compression problems on standard DVDs - the man himself admitting it although desperatley trying to side step the issue: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/660/660456p1.html I didn't say the 360 wasn't HD, I said it wasn't fully HD in that MS decided against an HD format optical drive. It also doesn't have a true HD video output HDMI, component is the best it has. It does support 720p (upscaled in some cases apparently) and yes that is HD but hey the xbox and PS2 can do that. 78 -
Unregistered - thePoint 12.14.2005 16:04 SOny is looking into the future and that is a good thing but they need to be carful how far the want to look for a gameconsole. The predictiong 1080P will be it 7-10 years from now and that blueray will survive. Things could change direction and some things will. Its a ganmble to predict that your system will still be competible that far into the future with the constant change of Technology. My point is that 1080p is no reason to buy a PS3 in the first years of its cycle, its all mrketing hype to slow down xbox360.. And if 1080p is why your buying it you could wait till the price of PS3 and 1080p tvs drop to buy one.Xbox360's native resolution is 720p 1080i which is HD and its not upscaled either. 79 -
Unregistered - G 12.14.2005 16:58 file compression to fit on to dvd's... hd-dvd and blu-ray isn't out. can't be helped. plus, what's wrong with adding another dvd if they did need it? small sacrifice for cost. oblivion, a big game, fits on 1 dvd. if you ever got into the warez scene, you would know that you never had to download a game bigger than 4.7 gb. as for the joystiq.com game you posted: "it punts out at 1024x600. This is unlike any of the other Xbox 360 games we have so far screengrabbed, which ALL HAVE GIVEN screenshots of 1280x720." it's one game? pgr. it isn't even official. it's some dude off some forum. but even if it was true, you generelazied it as if it happens to ALL xbox 360 games. well whatever with that. im getting both systems. im sure both systems will be great. 80 -
Stop WhiningUnregistered - Jonga 12.14.2005 17:05 #76 is right. Just hope Sony comes out with a vga adapter for the ps3. Then all you will need is something for the sound. As for this story, it's just Sony marketing. It's like which brand of detergent makes your white clothes more white. I have a 360 and it looks phenomenal on my tv in 720p and 1080i. It also looks great on my 19inch walmart special up in my room. You should really be worrying about the games. You would think that Sony would have released a load of PS3 screens,videos, and gameplay details by now to deter people from buying the 360. I am gonna wait until I see some solid ingame videos of ps3 games before I start getting all hot and bothered. I will still probably get it, I just hope they have a better launch lineup for the ps3 than they did for the ps2. 81 -
virusone 12.14.2005 17:39 I own an Xbox 360. I will also be getting a revolution and playstation 3. I don't have an HD TV yet and when I do it won't be 1080p, so I don't really care. 82 -
Hmm...Unregistered - Hmm... 12.14.2005 17:49 To all the fools that are saying "Stop talking about the equipment, its the games that matter !" go away please. If its 'game quality youre after', go and buy a N64 ! Youll find good quality games there.Not sure about the graphics and speed though... Oh, and all those 360 defenders left over here, stop whining about HD TV, and that it wont catch on for years to come, BECAUSE IT WILL !! Its getting cheaper and cheaper very quickly. Spartan, you allege that the Blu-ray format is still undescided for PS3. Please, check your facts before you come out with rubbish like that. Its been confirmed for roughly 6 months now that the PS3 will use Blu-Ray. 83 -
Unregistered - Huxley 12.14.2005 17:50 Man you guys are an eyesore I'm tired of the ps3 and xbox 360 rants, I'm out of here until next year. 84 -
blu-rayUnregistered - bk 12.14.2005 18:43 first of all i can tell that most of you dont have any idea of wat blu-ray is and why its not a good idea for ps3 to release it... 1) blu-ray is costly---explains itself too dumb to understand dont continue... 2) new technology isnt always the best as ive said before there is a new format comign out at 300gb much faster at reading and soon might get to 12 tb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so does that mean oh wow watch out `1 terabyte games coming out... 3) the reason ps3 is releasing blu-ray isnt becauseof gaming its because of movies...games WILL NOT be filling up more than 10 gb for atl east five more years unless pc games which are different and some rare games. 4) blu-ray has a slow reading speed and since its a new format compression hasnt been available for it at a great quality..same game thatll be 4 gb on 360 might be 8 gb on blu-ray 5)do you guyz really think games will come out on 1080 p???? what the **** is wrong with you ps2 was capable of 720i how many games on it at 720i? probably less than 10 6) for you people that think ps3 will last 10 years...kill urself right now...the ps3 RSX graphic type will be outclassed by 2 years not only by pc's but even by 360's ati...Nvidia is just not as powerfull as ATi and youd think a software company like microsoft knows that... the cpu makes u guyz think its amazing while it only has ONE core processor and 7 SPE's whoopdeedoo nothing will replace core processors because they are CORE PROCESSORS the essential of processing very soon the ps3 will be dated and you guyz think itl last 10 years...ok u keep thinking that. Not that im saying 360 wont but by that time MS will release a new console 7) no one untill now has actually announced that their using blu-ray for games except rockstar but that would mean no release for 360 right? WRONG 8 months after gta 4 on ps3 ther will be a 360 release 8) you guyz keep repeating this, "ps3 will have ayears advantage...etc", not true the ps3 is already made why isnt it released? first of all they want people to prepare for ps3 so people that got 360 will have pockets full of money for ps3 just in case...but then why is warhawk and lair already at 100%? because ps3 is also using this time to make an amazing launch line up great idea but doesnt change the system itself. 9) one of the biggest games in PC history is UT 2004 with 100 updates and everything...UT 2007 to release for 360 and ps3. yea their both the same system but the people that got ps3's will have a tough time trying to fit all the updates on their system which has a surprisingly small ram and memory for a "true HD experience" 10) Break down all numbers hypes and commercials and fans...both systems are just as euqual what one system doesnt have the other takes advantage of but in the end their both capable of the same thing. and blu-ray isnt a raeson to get a ps3...again and again people have said 54 gb games will be amazing i bet 100$ canadian that no game in at least 5 years till ps(next) and xbox(next) will be over 20gb...there is just no way to fill that much space. Blu-ray is still not the winner dvd's were amazing and still are i rally dont understand a reason to buy blu-ray for a gaming system except to make it an entertainment system...also dont expect the true performances of the hd era for a long time again i say this again u get a ps3 gd for you get a 360 gd for you. 85 -
PAUL CERULA 12.14.2005 19:20 #82 seriously I said it's an unconfirmed format for the entertainment industry....I know ps3's gonna have a blu-ray drive but the war wages on. 86 -
WOW!Unregistered - wow 12.14.2005 19:20 Hey #84 you are officially an idiot! Your opinion is worthless,flawed and ridiculous. case closed. 87 -
^ SHUTUP #85 ^Unregistered - Alexander 12.14.2005 19:34 Shut up unless you can prove the guy above you wrong on all his points. Id like to see you try. Especially when you try and justify paying for your '50gb' games - even when we do reach that size (id give it 10 years minimum) games are going to start to cost loads. Think about it. PS- Got a 360, loving it, looks cool plays cool and runs cool. No freezes, even after 17 hours drunken gameplay (call it nerdy - but it was fun). 88 -
:)Unregistered - Alexander 12.14.2005 19:35 Sorry in a rush, meant to put #86...bye. 89 -
jokeBill Gates 12.14.2005 19:43 Joke: What do all the Xbox fanboys, and President Bush have in common? Answer: They are all in DENIAL!! :) 90 -
you shut up and go play your crap boxUnregistered - you shut up and go play your crap box 12.14.2005 19:50 his comments are so moronic that i don't know what to say! there's no need to prove anything.he says Cell is a worthless thing,he says nvidia gpu is outdated while it's coming after xbox and no one knows it's true specs yet.nvidia is the king of graphics and geforce 7 series blow ati cards out of water.the new format that he talks about is holographic and is completely incompatible with cd-dvd-hddvd-blu ray disks.it's very very costly and can't be used in consoles or PCs for years. 91 -
To all of youBill Gates 12.14.2005 19:56 Why do you people still bother with replying to SPARTAN OF 777??? He never makes any sense. NEVER! Just ignore him. Nothing he ever types is worth a reply. Oviously we(the educated:) know which is the better company. On a different note read the following I copied from Joystiq it was posted today. --EA’s Medal of Honor Airborne was revealed (but not confirmed) for the PlayStation 3 earlier this year. And although the series has been multiplatform for years, Airborne looked to become a Sony exclusive, that is, until GameStop released a list (via Gamers Reports) that the title was headed to the Xbox 360. However, Gamers Reports has since removed the list at the request of EA. This doesn’t mean that Sony and EA have reached an exclusive deal, it just means that EA isn’t ready to talk. Regardless, with the MoH franchise fading as of late, and Call of Duty 2 leading the Xbox 360 launch, do Sony boycotters even care? 92 -
Dev1032 12.14.2005 20:04 I'm gonna leave this thread for now, But I will definitely be back, as soon as I recover from my early Dev party. What a great night, sorry for being off topic, but tonight was a winner for me, I will straighten thing out as soon as I recover consciousness lol. Stop your argueing, and I will tell you as much as I'm allowed to say tomorrow Peace 93 -
Unregistered - malik 12.14.2005 20:11 i checked out the joystiq post. like what 79 said, i dont get why its being generalized either. it's off one game and all the sudden it becomes a "major" issue with xbox360 "games". unproven at that. fanboys will be fanboys i guess 94 -
xbox 360 hdtvUnregistered - cbarker 12.14.2005 20:13 This was from CNET.com faq page on the 360. Does the Xbox 360 output in HD resolution? Yes. On the software side, Microsoft required that all Xbox 360 games support at least 720p resolution with 1080i support optional. On the hardware side, both 720p and 1080i are supported out of the box, though games can also be displayed 480p and 480i. Since the original Xbox supported these resolutions, this really isn't anything new; what is, however, is that all games must support HD resolution, which starts at 720p, and wide-screen formats. 95 -
to bill gates" and all others Unregistered - BK 12.14.2005 20:22 ok dude ur are so close minded that u dont accept anything if u truly think its not worth talking to "us fanboys" (not that ur not a fanboy...) then dont and make a good example of yourself. for the person that said that i made no sense and im full of flawes...all i said is based on facts and i i havent seen one intelligent comment from you. and to the second last post...Nvidia graphic cards might sometimtes be equal but no matter what if you pick two cards from each company at the same level e.g. 128 cards compared, you can tell that which is better and i tell this by experience...have you tried it? if you have and u say its btter ok then but thats still in my opinion. and if you cant read i said there is no way IN 10 YEARS!!!! in a year the rsx will be out dated and the cpu for ps3 is not a miracle like you say it is its pretty current genereation stuff so i was just pointing out in 10 years this ps3 wil be like the SNES...especially if the technology keeps growing at this rate. BUT IVE SAID BEFORE AND AGAIN I REALLY DONT CARE ABOUT WHICH CONSOLE IS BETTER!!! both are awesome but just pointing out that ps3 is not the holy jesus of next generation like u think and blu-ray really doesnt effect gaming. P.S. to the dude that said that the maxell 300 gb disc doesnt exist please just type it in google and look at the release rate late 2006, it is being released. and u said that its some holographic or w/e disc that we dont know about...i can easily say that for the blu-ray. but this is truely next gen stuff 20mb/sec that is amazing and everything is built in its beta stage but they just need to finalize it and they could get to higher points!!! This thing has already surpassed most if not all of our current hard drives truly amazing. heres a link http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/5189/ all im trying to do is to correct u guyz from saying stuff that u really dont know about. take it as u will i really dont care cuz if u get a 360 im not the one enjoying it and same goes for ps3. really if u diss me swear at me or w/e u want i really dont care go ahead becuz that wont offend me give me facts and ill shut my mouth but at least im not afraid to admit im wrong and im not close minded and say that one console rules the other. 96 -
Dev1032 12.14.2005 20:25 I will anse Mixrosofts claime tomorrow, stop trieing to make hype from sites that dont know about Hardware. Laters and peace. 97 -
Dev1032 12.14.2005 20:28 At the moment I will not reply to you, tomorrow I will and I will put the record straght, enjoy your X360, its a good machine and I will answer all questions tomorrow. 98 -
300 gb disc continues mised in last postUnregistered - BK 12.14.2005 20:28 http://www.i4u.com/article4678.html prices the disc=120$ drive=15 k though the drive is expensive in a few years the price will definately drop...lol "wow imagine a game that is 1 terabytes :O wow" sure its expensive but u asked for true next generation high definition harware and here it is. pricy sure but 300 gb alreayd amazing just truly amazing. 99 -
Dev1032 12.14.2005 21:00 I will say this, Blu-Ray is 25gig single layer 50 gig sual later the disc's you talk of are nex next gen, not available for the consumer, PS2 pushed DVD, they hope to do the same for Blu-ray, which is when DVD format picked up speed. Blu-ray at the moment has the most followers, asfor holographic media, that will be available in rughly 10 years time, which is roughly the start of PS4. PS3 will continue for a further 5-6 Years going into 2010, HDTV 1090p will be like todays 720p the thing is PS3 will be around untill 2015 at least, 5 years before PS5 gets introduced. Sony are looking into the future like many people have said, all say is wait for jan CES event, then you will see who dominates. 100 -
Dev1032 12.14.2005 21:12 See how I dont make much sese, while after a good night out, I'm leaving this discussion till tomorrow, then I can use facts on what has been said and what I know in the dev wcomunity. What I just said is blurn, I dont want to take sides, I want to give a true comparison, if w360 GPU is better then I will say so, I already know the CPU for PS3 is supirior, but after tonight I knoe more, you will just have to wait just that little bit longer Soz but I need sleep, peace 101 -
Unregistered - BILL GATES 12.14.2005 21:29 Bill gates you have absolutely no life. You spend all your time on this site trying to make a difference but all you state is what stats companies want you to know. You give about half a screen of writing everytime you post and you post like 6 times a day. Seriously give it a rest your worse than dev. and spartan. At least they don't recite stats given by companies. Your such a fool to use what information RSX and Cell gives you. Well they want to sell their hardware so they'll exaggerate and lie just like Kutaragi. Just wait until the ps3 comes out and get a life.... 102 -
hmmm...Unregistered - Akakage 12.14.2005 22:02 Blu-Ray for movies I think is gonna be a joke. Sure Blu-Ray is 25gigs of space and that's cool..but HD video files take up alot more space then current DVD. I think its safe to say that Blu-Ray movies won't be any different than standard DVD...just 1080p(lolz). They will have the same amount of features...heck they might even be able to squeeze it all on one disc...but 2-6 months later...an uncut version of the same movie u just paid 30 bucks for will be released..(uncut Sin City was just release..for example) and if you want it...that's another $30 for the same movie...with extras they could have included on first Blu-Ray release. Just like with games...lets be serious..as someone already said there won't be that many 20gig games for the first year or so. Most games are multiplatform anyway so only half of the disc will even be used. Games won't be any longer then they are now...they just need more space for the "HD" videos/visuals. A DVD9 is about 8.6 gigs roughly..so most games on X360 2-discs at most..bout 17gigs...which we won't see very many of games that big..unless there are alot of cinemas. A 3-4 disc 360 game = 2 disc ps3 game..roughly...how many games that big do you think we will see??...not many. This is all hype. And like sheep fanboys are all following their sheperd (sony) blindly. Both consoles will be fantastic...Blu-Ray...DVD9, HDDVD...whatever. The Blu-ray, 1080p HD hype is why so many fanboys will be broke. Spending Xtra money that you could have used on more games or a car or whatever. Blu-Ray ain't gonna be cheap...just like those TV's aren't cheap...(stand-alone Blu-Ray are like ID="MainNewsBlogCom",000 dollars before they were delayed). So expect to pay more for your PS3's, ps3 games and blu-ray movies. Especially at launch. 103 -
Dev1032 12.14.2005 22:35 Like I said I will give a true conoariison tomorrow, to be totaly honest, Both GPU's are almost identicle, Only the Cell excefes the X360 GPU, but Cell can do graphics too, so I have to do alot of math to work out whixh is the best system, at the moment it looks like PS3 has the best system, let me look at the released reports and other white papers, amongst other thing of course. 104 -
PAUL CERULA 12.14.2005 23:24 Hey Dev. better watch what you say Bill Gates should be on any second and say that the ps3 gpu is 3x as powerful and that the cell is 35x more powerful....or some gross exaggeration like that. Bill humours me by jumping the gun with hardware stats released from the companies that can get away with exaggerating their specs. All hype baby, lets just wait. A lot of the ps3 games are going to be on DVD anyways. Very few in my opinion will be blu-ray. And you'll have a price difference. I can see it now paying more for ps3 blu ray games and you'll say well now i won't have to switch out two dvds so I guess it was all worth it. My predictions in 5 years (next console ps4 xbox 720) -25% HDTVs -5% 1080p -30% Blu-ray or HD-DVD's become media standard for video games and movies. The growth is just not going to be as fast as everybody is hoping it to be. My predictions are realistic. HDTV prices will go down and as a result regular tv's will come down so why would a normal consumer spend 400 on a 32inch HDTV when they could get a normal TV for 100. 105 -
#79 and #84BillGatesSucks 12.14.2005 23:40 First to post #79 Compression is going to be a problem when it starts affecting gameplay with slow downs in processing and longer load times. You want all your games to be on 2 discs that take forever to load? Suit yourself. Me, I prefer games on one disc and faster loading, thanks. I didn't claim the 360 was upscaling all it's games to 720p, all I said was it was doing it, which apparently is true. All other games, except for PGR3 may be running natively at 720p, but um big deal, the xbox can do that. Seems MS is going back on its own word of all games required to run at the minimum of 720p by having to upscale. Hmmmm. To #84 - Are you naturally that stupid or does it take practise? I've never seen such a display of ignorance about the material being discussed, and yet you say your entire arguement was based on fact. Show me these supposed facts. You obviously know squat about the blu ray, the cell processor or the rsx. So, until you educate yourself on the topic and can form a coherent arguement, keep quiet and let the grown ups talk. 106 -
please post something worth a centUnregistered - jusblaze 12.14.2005 23:42 this many posts. on this website. are there like 5 guys sitting in front of the cpu doing nothing. this is a sony site. again. not a fangirl site. and the sony people with nothing better to do. chillax. wait till the nexr episode. people already have it in there minds what they think is what. for all the posters. do us all a favor. this is a sony website. hate it you want. but quit wasting everyones time in here trying to cause drama. no no no no drama. turn into springer at 4 eastern time for that. 107 -
Way too expensive!!! comment by Business manUnregistered - Business man 12.15.2005 00:19 Just to make you know I'm an xbox fan, but this fan has nothing against PS3. The PS3 is going to be not only a great system,but a expensive one that could be out of consumers price range. The games might go to 80-100 dollars, which would be a problem for many. Microsoft wanted to make a sytem that's affordable to consumers,so lower price means more consumer hungry. You get the picture. What I'm saying could be fact. Don't get me wrong, I like what both microsoft and sony are doing with these systems. I got xbox360 already, now soon I'll get PS3 to get the best of both worlds. Hey fans of both PS3 and Xbox360, know me as the fan that has high respects for both systems. Know me as Business man. I'm not a Business man, I'm a Business man!!! 108 -
PAUL CERULA 12.15.2005 01:06 URGENT ANNOUNCEMENT :SPARTAN OF 777 has changed his name to PAUL CERULA I had a problem recovering my old xbox live gamertag Spartan of 777 so I'm going with this name Paul Cerula which is now my current gamertag. 109 -
Hmm...Unregistered - Hmm... 12.15.2005 02:50 Few things to clear up... 1.Im Hmm... , the other guy is hmmm... 2.The RSX is far more advanced than both the ATI 500 and 520. 3.Blu-ray costs roughly very little more to manufacture than DVD. 4.The Blu-ray disc has a much faster reading rate than that of a DVD. 5.Dont take my word for it, go to blu-ray.com 110 -
Unregistered - G 12.15.2005 06:04 lets start quoting shall we "Plus there's the fact that the 360's HD signal isn't even true HD in that it's not produced as part of the gaming process but as a type of post-rendering where the signal is stretched out" -billgatessucks really? it's a fact that 360's hd signal isn't even true HD? it sounds so... generalized.. as if its xbox360's true nature. lol don't exagurate the trueth man. like i said. it's not real evidence. you can't claim it TRUE until you give a real one. it's off a forum guy. "Allard about 360 compression problems on standard DVDs - the man himself admitting it although desperatley trying to side step the issue" again. you exagurate it when you say --the man himself admitting it although DESPERATELY TRYING to side step the issue-- uh.. nice assumption. desperately trying huh? did he really? yes i can tell by the expression on those letters the ign editor typed up! *sarcasm* . eh. oblivion/gta:sa on one dvd. nough said. anyways, my point is, is that being the fanboy that a lot of people here are. people like to exagurate the truth on any small negative aspect of the system. at the same time, do the same for any positive news they hear about their beloved system. woOoo 1080p, let me go ask daddy to get me a $10000 television! 111 -
for BK to learn..Unregistered - some guy from sony 12.15.2005 06:50 Ok, Bk I saw your post at #84.. I really think that you have been hearing propoganda and not real facts and I want to try to help others that may beleive the things you posted.. Here goes: "1) blu-ray is costly---explains itself too dumb to understand dont continue..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This statement you probably mis-understood from Feb. of last year when the manufacturing plants were discussing the formats. You see it was expensive to re-design the machines that make the Blue ray COMPARED to an easy conversion to create HD-DVD. In reality, once the machines were created the cost of materials to create a BD is the same as a DVD (which are both alot cheaper than VHS tapes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2) new technology isnt always the best as ive said before there is a new format comign out at 300gb much faster at reading and soon might get to 12 tb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so does that mean oh wow watch out `1 terabyte games coming out... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The BD still has the advantage over the DVD. You can not stay in front of Tech. because when you are in front, you are creating the next step for others to jump off of.. this is the reason for the advancement of the human race.. all things must move forward in time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3) the reason ps3 is releasing blu-ray isnt becauseof gaming its because of movies...games WILL NOT be filling up more than 10 gb for atl east five more years unless pc games which are different and some rare games. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I agree with this statement. However, alot of households enjoy watching movies and playing games. Why not buy the best home experience for a movie with BD? And why buy a $400 console and a ID="MainNewsBlogCom",000 BD player, when you can have both for under $500 (no actual pricing for PS3 released). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) blu-ray has a slow reading speed and since its a new format compression hasnt been available for it at a great quality..same game thatll be 4 gb on 360 might be 8 gb on blu-ray --------------------------------------------------------------- BD are indeed faster at tranfering data than DVD's and HD-DVDs. As for compression.. You want a game to not be compressed... it makes the data flow directly to the processor and out as opposed to decompressing first. -------------------------------------------------------- 5)do you guyz really think games will come out on 1080 p???? what the **** is wrong with you ps2 was capable of 720i how many games on it at 720i? probably less than 10 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The games will allow different resolutions (like PC games). The PS2 was out before the HDTV boom. 720i was unimportant as 98% of owners could only see 480i anyway. This Gen will be different. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) for you people that think ps3 will last 10 years...kill urself right now...the ps3 RSX graphic type will be outclassed by 2 years not only by pc's but even by 360's ati...Nvidia is just not as powerfull as ATi and youd think a software company like microsoft knows that... the cpu makes u guyz think its amazing while it only has ONE core processor and 7 SPE's whoopdeedoo nothing will replace core processors because they are CORE PROCESSORS the essential of processing very soon the ps3 will be dated and you guyz think itl last 10 years...ok u keep thinking that. Not that im saying 360 wont but by that time MS will release a new console ----------------------------------------------------------- Actually.... Do a google search for IBM Cell Power. The Cell processor is incredible. The RSX is there for support. You have obviously not studied computer science and have only read xbox message boards. IBM has had a hand in creating both systems and they have posted a technical analysis of the CELL compared to a 3 processor CPU (basically PS3 vs. X360). Seriously, look it up. The PS3 Cell processor proved to be double the power in processing. Think of it this way, 3 processors = 6 threads of data. 1 Cell = 14 threads of data. As for the GPU's - I have read many spec articles about the RSX vs. the ATI 360 video hardware... RSX (or the 7800xt) beats in all benchmarks. So where did you get your info? ---------------------------------------------------------------- 7) no one untill now has actually announced that their using blu-ray for games except rockstar but that would mean no release for 360 right? WRONG 8 months after gta 4 on ps3 ther will be a 360 release -------------------------------------------------------------------------- At least it is an option to use Blu Ray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 8) you guyz keep repeating this, "ps3 will have ayears advantage...etc", not true the ps3 is already made why isnt it released? first of all they want people to prepare for ps3 so people that got 360 will have pockets full of money for ps3 just in case...but then why is warhawk and lair already at 100%? because ps3 is also using this time to make an amazing launch line up great idea but doesnt change the system itself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sony holds thier cards close (as in the article). Wait until January.. Trust me. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) one of the biggest games in PC history is UT 2004 with 100 updates and everything...UT 2007 to release for 360 and ps3. yea their both the same system but the people that got ps3's will have a tough time trying to fit all the updates on their system which has a surprisingly small ram and memory for a "true HD experience" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- PS3 has the same Ram as X360. In fact it has faster ram. 256mb same as X360 and on top of that 256mb Faster than x360. In fact the Cell is designed to utilize the faster RAM, which by the way the X360 is not capable of doing. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) Break down all numbers hypes and commercials and fans...both systems are just as euqual what one system doesnt have the other takes advantage of but in the end their both capable of the same thing. and blu-ray isnt a raeson to get a ps3...again and again people have said 54 gb games will be amazing i bet 100$ canadian that no game in at least 5 years till ps(next) and xbox(next) will be over 20gb...there is just no way to fill that much space. Blu-ray is still not the winner dvd's were amazing and still are i rally dont understand a reason to buy blu-ray for a gaming system except to make it an entertainment system...also dont expect the true performances of the hd era for a long time again i say this again u get a ps3 gd for you get a 360 gd for you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I think HD era is going to surprise you. Look at how fast UMD caught on. 5 years ago you could have said to people (In fact I did).. you only need a 20gb hard drive.. you will never fill that. The fact is that the HD graphics and demands of gamers are going to make most games over 20Gb in no time... in fact probably at launch. Ever single texture has to be stored in a hi-res graphic file (every single one) then all the 3d models, the mapping info, the AI, the control algorithims, the menus etc.. these games are going to be huge as far as DATA is concerned weather the developers like it or not. Anyway, I hope that cleared some things up. You do not have to believe what I typed, look it up yourself. For real. 112 -
PAUL CERULA 12.15.2005 11:33 You guys will soon realize that the ps3 and xbox 360 are very close in ACTUAL performance. You shouldn't buy the ps3 for the blu-ray that's retarded. So what if you'll have to switch a disc out a couple years later. It's the games and online that people should be making their decision by. 113 -
Unregistered - Sean 12.15.2005 12:39 This whole argument is dead in the water ps3 won't be out for another year 114 -
Hmm...Unregistered - Hmm... 12.15.2005 15:22 I find it hard to belive PAUL (Aka Spartan) STILL says that 360 and the PS3 are close in performance...its...unbeliveable. Some people never learn. Oh, and nice job No.111. 115 -
Hmm...Unregistered - Hmm... 12.15.2005 15:24 Sigh...ok 113, and where does it say it wont be out for a year ? WHERE ?! FFS man, please, before you say something like that, actually check your facts. Sony has confirmed the PS3 will be out by Spring. 116 -
To Paul CerulaDark Samurai 12.15.2005 15:53 How does your 360 unit play DVD movies? I've heard that it's DVD playback quality isn't good at all, and what about your power supply? Does it get too hot? I want to know whether all 360 units have these problems or not? 117 -
for the dude from sonyUnregistered - BK 12.15.2005 16:38 if u actually read everything ud notice i mentioned itll never last 4 years sure rsx looks amazing now but in 2 years there will be a video card alot better than that same goes for the cell procesor. i know 50 people will now say then what about 360 would that also be ancient...of course it will but the people never promised 10 years of life...if the 360 or ps3 were to live 10 years im serious right now all of you should forget about them and keep sooping up ur pc, blu-ray is not nessesary for the next genereation maybe in 5 years but by then there will be new systems do you guyz really think that sony will just sit back and relax while microsoft releases its next console in 5 years? 118 -
i read this somewher...Unregistered - BK 12.15.2005 16:44 512MB UMA memory 360 256MB XDR ps3 memory i read somewher a guy talking about this... 119 -
PAUL CERULA 12.15.2005 17:01 Kurama, well I don't have any DVD's I'm still new here at PSU. I'd imagine they work fine. Overheating or any other issues like that occure on LESS THAN 3% of all 360's. So far I haven't had any problems. The power supply gets pretty warm after a few hours of play and nothing happens. No freezing, overheating, or disc scratching with my 360 folks...same with the other 97% of xbox 360 owners out there. 120 -
To # 118Unregistered - Sniper 12.15.2005 17:35 UMA is short for Unified Memory Architecture, PS3 has 256Meg of this too, better known as GDDR3 which runs at 700Mhz. Rambus Ram is the quickest ram you can get. 121 -
Paul Serula aka SPARTAN OF 777Unregistered - MORONS!!! 12.15.2005 17:58 You're a lying piece of crap! You don't own a 360. So quit lying! Also Dev1032, you're no developer so you can quit acting like one NOW. "I'm gonna leave this thread for now, But I will definitely be back, as soon as I recover from my early Dev party. What a great night, sorry for being off topic, but tonight was a winner for me, I will straighten thing out as soon as I recover consciousness lol. Stop your argueing, and I will tell you as much as I'm allowed to say tomorrow" PLEASE KID!!! Learn how to use spell check first. The only person on this forum that's making any sort of sense is "some guy from sony" 122 -
Unregistered - ownage 12.15.2005 18:04 @115. i think you need to check your facts because the other guy might be right (US launch). US launch official yet but from how sony has been doing it. they would release it first in Japan and then months later in the US. so if sony continues on with the same launch trend, then ps3 will most likely come out about a year from now (fall/early winter). if they decide to bite off xbox360's world launch then yeah... spring it is. 123 -
Unregistered - Mc 12.15.2005 18:06 hahahahahaha! I just love this site I have read most of the post and could not stop laughing keep it up. its better than altimate fighting. 124 -
To # 121Dev1032 12.15.2005 18:30 Believe what you want, I don't have to prove to you what my line of business is, as for using a spell checker, I don't bother with them, that's why last night I made some spelling mistakes because guess what? I was drunk, I also said a few stupid things (also to do with drink) I'm not a drinker and shouldn't have posted last night. I don't need to pretend anything, I could show you documented proof of who I am by scanning it in, hardly a good Idea though is it? I would like to keep my job thanks. 125 -
X360 dvdplaybackUnregistered - Akakage 12.15.2005 18:36 I can answer that question..the DVD playback is good...better than that of PS2 and Xbox...I haven't watch to many films on it...as I have a standalone DVD player. I normally stay away from playing too many films in my consoles. But those that I have watched played well and the playback quality was good. If that answers your question. 126 -
Here is the complete Harrison interview (since the link above isn't updated yet)Dark Samurai 12.15.2005 18:40 As the PlayStation 2 approaches its sixth Christmas on the market, we spoke to Sony's development chief Phil Harrison about the present and future of the firm's console ambitions - including his thoughts on online gaming, the HD era and the future for videogames retail. As president of Sony Computer Entertainment's Worldwide Studios, Phil Harrison is one of the key architects of the future of the PlayStation brand - overseeing the company's software development efforts for all of the consoles in the PlayStation family. Few people are better-placed to talk not only about the success of PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable, but about the firm's plans, hopes and ambitions for next year's PlayStation 3. GamesIndustry.biz spoke to Harrison this week about the status of PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable, what the company has chosen to reveal about PlayStation 3 - and perhaps more importantly, why it's chosen to reveal what it has. Read on for a glimpse at the thinking informing the decisions of the most important company in the videogames business from one of the key figures in the impending console war. GamesIndustry.biz: It's been an amazing year for the PlayStation brand. What's the feeling like internally now you've gone past the 100 million unit mark with PS2? Phil Harrison: I don't know whether we're supposed to be satisfied or elated. Obviously it's a significant milestone by any objective measure; to get to 100 million units of anything is impressive. I think what is more impressive is the speed at which we did it. PlayStation 1 was the first console to get to 100 million units and it did that in about eight years, I think, and PlayStation 2 did it in five years and nine months - so that's two years and three months faster than PlayStation 1. What that says is that we're reaching more people more quickly, and actually at a comparatively higher price point than PlayStation 1. I think that shows a lot of very positive signs. Sorry - long answer to a short question, but I think it shows that the fundamental foundations of the business are incredibly healthy. How many PS2s do you think you'll eventually sell? Well at this rate we should be getting up to well into the mid-hundred-millions - I mean, 140, 150 million would be a fantastic achievement - but I'm not unfortunately able to make any predictions on that, because it's an issue which would have implications for our share price, so I'll have to decline to answer that one. You've just acquired Guerrilla - is that a sign of how you plan to operate in the coming years, or did you just feel it was the right time to bring the developer into the fold? We've had a long time and a great working relationship with Guerrilla and they were an exclusive developer working with us. To all intents and purposes they were part of the family anyway, so it was just a very natural progression to bring them in to be our partners as our employees, and really part of the team. Obviously in order to acquire, the company itself has to want to sell, and in this particular case the founders and shareholders of the company were looking to sell, we were looking to expand our development talent, so it was a great fit. As to what that says about our future strategy, I think I'd just say that we're always looking for the best developer talent, whether it's hiring them individually or working with teams, and continuing strongly. It may not be the last time we acquire a company but we have no plans at the moment. What can we expect to see from the PS2 in the next year now that we're gearing up for the PS3 launch? What does the machine's support look like in the next 12 months? The software line-up from first- and third-party is as strong as ever, and I think that this is something the industry has learned from the transition from PSone to PS2 - that a number of publishers jumped off the PSone format prematurely. What we're seeing with PS2 is developers and publishers around the world continuing to make strategic-level investment in the format. Obviously we'll find the kind of consumer who is buying a PlayStation 2 in year six is very different to the kind of person who bought a PlayStation 2 in year 2000 - the sixth and the seventh year of the format are clearly reaching the mass market, not necessarily younger consumers but definitely more mass-market consumers. Hence the success of things like Buzz, Singstar and EyeToy, which are continuing to be core parts of our release schedule going forward. So you don't think that the demographic in terms of the age range is going to fall as it did with PSone? There is inevitably some element of the demographic that gets younger, but the reality is that it just gets wider. You see, some element of PlayStation 2 being handed down to younger members of the family when older brother or sister buys a PlayStation 3 - we saw that with PSone - but what we also saw with PSone is that it just gets wider; we get 78-year-olds enjoying games as well as three and four-year-olds. I think that one of the things our industry's achieved in the last generation cycle is genuine mass-market acceptance and the average age of a PlayStation user is kind of an irrelevance now - it's really as prevalent as watching television. Do you think that Europe's become increasingly important to Sony over the PlayStation's life cycle, and if so is this a trend we can see continuing as you get ready to launch the PS3? Well, to the first part of that question, the answer is that Europe has always been a key part of the PlayStation success story; the PlayStation 2 business [is] getting up to 40 million units now in Europe and that's an astonishing achievement. As to what that means for the launch of the next generation, it obviously means that Europe will be a vital part of the launch strategy. Whether there's a subtext to your question or not I can't answer. Not really... I mean, whether you were trying to suggest that Europe would be getting the console first as a result... Well, there's been a lot of speculation about that in the press lately. From what has been said, spring 2006 is still a key date, but from what I understand Kaz Hirai said you're still deciding whether to go with a worldwide launch? Well you'll have to ask David Reeves - I can't speak for Europe in when they would launch PlayStation 3, but we haven't made any announcements and I don't think it's right to speculate. Moving on to the PSP, how do you think it's gone now we're three months on from launch? What do you make of the reports Nintendo DS is outselling it? Well that's factually incorrect. PlayStation Portable has been the fastest-selling machine to ten million units. We are bringing in plane-loads of PSPs into Europe and the US as we speak in order to satisfy the demand in the run-up to Christmas, and if you talk to retail they'll tell you it's the hottest-selling piece of hardware right now - by far and away the number one demanded product in stores this Christmas. You launched the PSP Giga Pack recently - are there any similar plans in the pipeline? We've only just introduced the Giga Pack so we're very pleased with the take-up on that and it's great to see that users value the 1GB Memory Stick as an important way of storing music and video and other multimedia content on the PSP. That is really the direction we wanted to go with the format - to expand it from being just a game system into being the must-have gaming device you would take with you at all times - and the Gigapack's success has backed that up. As to future plans, you know what we're like - we always try to keep our cards pretty close to our chest till we're ready to share them. The Xbox 360's just launched, and with it comes downloadable content on a meaningful scale - how do you see the face of retail changing over the next generation? I think it will change tremendously. I mean, I think that PSP showed that you can have a successful network format with writable media - in the first three months of the PSP's life we handled over a million downloads - or we're just crossing the million, probably last week. That's a million downloads from our own website of content to expand the user's experience, and I think as soon as you have a network-ready device - PSP, obviously PlayStation 3 - the extension and expansion of the user experience beyond the retail purchase becomes a reality. I think this is a very good trend for our industry. Would you say Sony missed the boat with online gaming in this generation, given the relative success of Live compared to PS2 Online? Is that a balance you're hoping to redress in the next generation? I've always been very admiring of some of the things Microsoft has managed to do with their branding and some of the consumer elements of their service, but it's always important to remember that more people play online games through PlayStation 2 than any other consoles. On a worldwide basis it is the most popular online console by virtue of the size of the installed base. Are you planning to make more of it in the next-generation, particularly in Europe? I think we will always look to delivering the best experience to the consumer that we can and part of that is going to be in the fact the PlayStation 3 from the beginning is a network device; it's an always on network device with many writable media formats supported as part of the format. When we launched PlayStation 2 it did not have network functionality built in as standard, and it was obviously a challenge to add that capability to the format after the launch. What do you think about the Xbox 360 generally, and things like the shortages of the console at the moment? Do you believe the theories that it's just a marketing ploy? No, I don't believe that for a second. I think that it's clear that they're making every unit that they can - whether that is enough for demand or they can't make enough is a question you'll have to put to Microsoft. It's definitely not done on purpose, I can assure you of that. Do you have an Xbox 360? Personally no, but there are a few in the office and obviously I've been checking it out. What are you general impressions? [Laughs] I think I'll say what David [Reeves] said. When you ask David he says, "Sorry, I don't do impressions." He's going to be at the end of the pier all week by the way! I think it's a lot better than their first introduction to the console business. You showed PS3 for the first time at E3 this year and the reaction was very positive - we know that you're not ready to discuss 2006 in detail yet, but how important a year would you consider 2005 in terms of the PlayStation 3 story? I think there were three key events in the PlayStation 3 story during 2005. The first was the ISSCC, which is the semiconductor conference that took place in February where the Cell processor was announced, and from that the world could see that our intentions were to build a super-computer for entertainment. It was a very academic conference but the specifications and information that we revealed on Cell back then showed that our intentions were to build the most powerful consumer-focused computing device on the planet, and we have obviously achieved that. The second key event was E3, coupled with the announcement that we were working with NVIDIA to provide a graphics chip - obviously the response to E3 was overwhelmingly positive and we were delighted with the response that we got, but I think there were also a few key messages there. The development community responded very strongly to the fact that we were working with NVIDIA and that the developers gained access to a very mature tool-chain from the beginning that allowed them to build on their expertise that they had developed in the PC area, particularly shaders, e.g. the graphics language. And then the third key event was Tokyo Game Show where not only did we show a lot of forward momentum from a content point of view but you could see from the breadth of support that the PlayStation 3 has garnered from the industry that this is going to be the major format choice for the industry going forward. Why is it that you don't want to talk about the PS3 at the moment? I think there are a couple of reasons for that. One is that we always have a strategy for when we share particular new information with the world, and we're in a period when we would rather focus on selling PSPs and PS2s - obviously this Christmas is a huge Christmas for retail. PlayStation-branded products, hardware and software, are the most important thing to retail around the world right now - that's where they're making their money - and it's important that we remain focused on exploiting our current business to the absolute maximum. Clearly next year the emphasis will start to shift, and we will start to share with you at the appropriate time a lot of the cool things about PS3. We also perhaps didn't feel the need to be overly scared into making any announcements just because somebody else had launched beforehand - that wasn't part of our plans and isn't part of our plans. HD is obviously a big topic in gaming at the moment. Microsoft has made 720p the default, Nintendo is kind of ignoring it - Sony seems to be taking a middle route, would you say that's true? I think it really has to be redefined as to what you mean by high definition. High definition as far as the consumer is concerned means high definition movies, which means Blu-ray disc, and that is the reason that people will buy high definition display coupled with a player that is capable of playing movies and games, which is obviously PlayStation 3. The true definition of HD is the three elements of the HD value chain - the display, the content and the hardware to play back that content, and PlayStation and Sony is the only organisation that has all three bits of the value chain together. As you well know the Xbox 360 doesn't play high definition movies and doesn't have true HD functionality - PlayStation 3 is the only format that has 1080-progressive, which is the true definition of HD, so it's really premature to be talking about the HD era. The HD era really only starts when we are on the market. Would you say that 2006 is a make or break year for PlayStation? I think we've already made it - I don't think there's any risk of it being broken. Clearly it is an important year for the continuing growth of PSP, which will be probably the fastest-growing format during the year. Clearly it will be an important year for the furthering spread of PlayStation 2. As far as the world is concerned the big news will be the launch of PlayStation 3, so it's going to be a PlayStation year whichever way we look at it. Phil Harrison is president of Worldwide Studios at Sony Computer Entertainment. Interviewed by Ellie Gibson. 127 -
BravoUnregistered - Oblivion 12.15.2005 19:18 Thats a lot of typing. 128 -
Unregistered - Sal 12.15.2005 19:28 still no launch date for north america I get this funny feeling that it will be 2006 nov/dec 129 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.15.2005 19:28 Sure Paul peole should chose cause of the games and I chose PS3 for clearly the better games and more exclusives. Face the thruth, I get 80% of you Xbox stuff on my PC. And online? Well I don't give a damn about Xboxlive cause I don't wanna pay for some online service. I already pay for my dsl and find what sony do best. 130 -
Unregistered - Carter 12.15.2005 19:28 Dam! 131 -
Unregistered - Hick 12.15.2005 19:31 My next pc will smoke the ps3 and the xbox360 132 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.15.2005 19:33 You wrong Paul, it's a freaking 15% of Xbox360 with overheating problem. One guy already went to court cause of it and when he wins all Xbox360 will have to be taken from the market. LOL 133 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.15.2005 19:34 Your next PC will smoke the Xbox360(mine already does) but not the PS3. You will need shader 4.0 for that. 134 -
PAUL CERULA 12.15.2005 20:02 121, I definately have an xbox 360. If you have facebook for college I can give you the group name that has a picture of my 360 and my samsung 23 hdtv lcd. If you have any doubts I can prove otherwise. I don't see what the big deal is whether I have one or not.... 135 -
PAUL CERULA 12.15.2005 20:03 132, he won't have all xbox 360's taken off the market. Thats retarded, you'd have to be an idiot to think that would happen. 136 -
You know he is not going to win dagamerUnregistered - Business man 12.15.2005 21:35 He can't beat a mega corporation 137 -
To golly G #110BillGatesSucks 12.16.2005 02:56 So, because the information comes from a forum poster, the fact that PGR3 upscales its output artificially to meet 720p is less/not valid? MS creates a standard minimum of 720p for game developers to meet, which is barely HD and only slightly better than what the xbox can do, and already a developer is having trouble with it. Yes, it's true that's only one game, but what are the other developers doing? Hmmm, only 720p? No one reaching 1080i? That would be a no. So, let's summarize shall we? 360 has NO HD optical drive, NO HD video output and game developers who are barely meeting minimum standard levels for resolution output of 720p. But hey, hook it up to your PC and you can watch HD movies! Yes folks, the HD era starts with the 360. And as for the Allard interview where he's questioned about compression problems, basically he blamed the developers: "Allard: Well, we've got to do better on compression. We're not totally where we want to be with compression. Honestly, to be frank, stuff comes in hot. We're trying to do a worldwide launch of this very ambitious program, and developers will tell you that they're not very satisfied with the DVD emulator or compression. And therefore they are layouts with DVD, they're struggling with that; they're cutting corners. Basically what happens when you get final hardware late, you're sloppy. With all deference to the developers, you've got to take every out you can and so they're not applying all their talents, as they will next year and the year after to get every little bit they can out of it. They're being a little sloppy with the CPU, they're being a little sloppy with the discs, they're being a little sloppy with their formats and compression to make launch. And next year, you'll see that they tighten that up so they can get more out of the system using the same disc capacity, using the same compression, and the same art tools, and so they'll get a lot more out of the system next year. That's why games look better year over year. It's primarily because hardware comes in hot, and developers use the deficiency of the schedule not to just learn the hardware but to cut a couple of corners." That's right Allard, it's not your fault your machine sucks dog, it's not your fault you chose to stay with standard DVD but demand HD performance from the games, it's the DEVELOPER'S fault. That's right! Yeah, I'd say that's trying to avoid the issue, or more precisely he's passing the buck. Typical MS thinking, blaming someone else for your product being a garbage pile. Okay, I'm going to do a quick impression of someone who posts here - see if you can guess who it is. Ahem .... BLAH BLAH BLAH difference between the two will be very very small (like my penis) BLAH BLAH BLAH performance doesn't matter (at least that's what my g/f tells me to keep me from crying when I can't get it up) BLAH BLAH BLAH don't buy it because of brand name loyalty (I LOVE YOU BILL GATES!!!) Did you guess who it was? 138 -
con'tBillGatesSucks 12.16.2005 03:03 Oh, and do you know why PGR3 had to be upscaled? Because the developers wanted to make sure the game could run at 30 fps. HA! Artificial HD and 30 fps, yes indeed, that's next gen for ya! Or at least the MS definition of it. 139 -
Unregistered - theSeus 12.16.2005 09:53 You pin heads make me laugh. You all clearly have no idea what your talking about . I'm sure that IBM, the designers of MS's CPU, have no idea what they are doing and f***fed up the 360. Wait, they are the best in the business so that doesn't make sense. Obviously you ignorant cusses have the answers even if IBM doesn't. Right... 140 -
guy will lose the suitUnregistered - Akakage 12.16.2005 11:23 The guy suing Msoft will lose the suit because the percentage of defective systems isn't high at all. 15% is inaccurate. Its more like 5%-7% of 400,000. Not a huge number at all. Besides with all the Defects in the PS2..if that didn't get recalled then neither will the X360. I've worked for a game specialty store since Aug 99 and every customer that has purchased a ps2 has came back to buy a second(or third in most cases) because their first one was defective. Ps2's scratched discs, won't read cd-rom games(blue disc) or they won't read DVD's. If you call sony right now..and tell them your PS2 doesn't read blue-discs you can get it fixed for free because it was a manufacturers defect. That's the truth. Now that they have the slim PS2 they have started having overheating problems as well. But no recall of PS2....so don't expect a recall of X360. I'm willing to bet most people on this forum..have had more than one PS2. That's why their sales numbers are so high. Many "repeat" customers. 141 -
HDDVDUnregistered - Akakage 12.16.2005 11:33 apparently at least according to IGN msoft is considering adopting HDDVD drives as standard in X360 this spring. Will be interesting to see what they do for the already exsisting 360 consumers. Well if this is true..so much for this topic. Lolz 142 -
MS and HD-DVDBillGatesSucks 12.16.2005 11:43 MS will only adopt the HD-DVD format if it can beat out Blu Ray as the standard hi def DVD format, which it looks like it won't. HD-DVD might have had a better chance if MS took it on right away - all the movie studios would have seen it getting out there first before Sony and Blu Ray and decided to support it instead. Ah well, MS's loss. 143 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.16.2005 13:33 140 you must be an idiot, nobody buys a second console, he just gets one repaired or replaced. The ones who buy same console twice or more must be of your type ;-) Your comment on sonys sales was very enjoyable. And the PS2 problem was never as big as Xbox360 now. I know plenty of people that has PS2 and none of them have problems. Paul he won't win, cause Billy will pay him out. 144 -
Facts not opinions.Unregistered - Akakage 12.16.2005 15:28 Dude I've been working in the industry for 6 years..I know what I'm talking about. Alot of people didn't think to call sony or were unaware that it was infact a manufacturers defect. Also alot of people didn't want to be 2 weeks without their PS2 while waiting for sony to fix it. While other people may have called sony...and sony refused to fix it(sony refused to fix them for free at first). Charging people $80-$160 dollars to fix it plus they had to pay for their own shipping. It was then more cost effective to purchase another one. When I noticed my PS2 was starting to get slower...I traded it in...for a new model..the ones with the + in the upper left corner. This isn't my opinion this is fact. Go into your local gamestore and ask them how many people purchased more than one PS2 because of defects. Ignorance would cause one to call another a fool without knowing the facts. The PS2 defects a much bigger problem than this. To this day I guarantee that there are still people whose ps2 don't play DVD's or they don't play CD-rom games. When people come in my store..they ask specifically...is this game a "blue back" or a "white" cuz their system won't play one of the other. Go into you local gamestore and ask around..don't take my word for it. Oh on a side note..PSP was defective too...in fact...their was a recall on PSP in japan. Projectile UMDs, broken square or x buttons, dead pixels on the screen. 145 -
Unregistered - JsonHenry 12.16.2005 15:50 I am not sure what exactly this guy is talking about the 360 not having HD functionality. I know that my Xbox360 plays in 720p, which is all that the PS3 will be able to play in, because simply put - the GPU in the PS3 does not have the fill rate capable of outputting natively any game with current graphics running at 1080p. It is a simple math equation that proves that. I think when he trumpets 1080p, he is referring to movie playback, not games. Of course I know I will be beat on this thread by Sony fan boys, but I am not partial to the 360. I will be standing in line for a PS3, as the output of 720p will be all that these games will be able to output in natively due to lack of hardware ability. Nothing wrong with that, the 360 can not do 1080i natively either. It is simply a barrier that current generation hardware can not over come and is not due to the fault of either Sony or MS. 146 -
Hmm...Unregistered - Hmm... 12.16.2005 16:51 I find it funny how many people alledge they are in 'The game industry', but still end up sounding like idiots. Also, quite strangly, these people are pro-xbox, and no matter what you tell them, theyll tell you to 147 -
Unregistered - G 12.16.2005 17:07 1080i... xbox 360 can handle 1080i. it doesn't take so much more power out of the system to run 1080i. it doesn't have to render that much more pixels than 720p since it's interlaced (1920 × 1080 / 2 pixels). why have two? "The main tradeoff between the two is that 1080i may show more detail than 720p for a stationary shot of a subject at the expense of introducing interlace artifacts from a motion of the camera (such as a pan) or motion of the subject. 720p is used by ABC and ESPN because the smoother image is desirable for fast-action sports telecasts. Fox Broadcasting Company uses the tagline "the nation's finest high-definition standard" in advertising its 720p programming." - wikipedia 720p would be more suitable for use with games since there are a lot of movement on screen. last time i checked 720p and 1080i were HD. last time i checked, the only available movies out are on DVD. xbox 360 will start to support HD-DVD in the future. "Proponents of 720p further argue that at the average viewing distance, with the average size of consumer HDTV sets, the human eye would not actually be able to perceive the difference in resolution between 720p and 1080p." -wikipedia 148 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.16.2005 17:57 Mate, 1080p is way better than 720p and sony will carry it, also in games. To the other guy, yes the PS2 and PSP had problems but I have to tell you everything has, is it a tv, dvd-player, etc. I could go on and on but the big differance is that it was never as big as with Xbox360 now. You can say what you want, but it's more than 5-7%. You surely don't believe and as a fanboy buy everything MS say. And hey, MS must have set a new world record in overheatingtime, hmmmm what was it, 20min of playing? Buahahaha 149 -
koolUnregistered - You're all HATERS!!!! 12.16.2005 18:14 Everyone check out this video. I hadn't seen it before. http://download.qj.net/Metal-Gear-Solid-4-Real-Time-Video/pg/12/fid/343/catid/3 150 -
Unregistered - G 12.16.2005 18:38 " You can say what you want, but it's more than 5-7% " . check on any site. it's less than 5%. where did u get your facts from? 151 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.16.2005 18:59 The websites are just posting what MS says. I have it from a survey. A lot of Xbox360 users were questioned and the result was 15%. But besides that Xbox360 just sucks, it ain't better than my PC. This will be an easy one for sony and great time for us the players. I find it also very amusing that you billyfanboys come overhere and discuss with us. You must be very curious about the PS3 and also the Xbox360 experience isn't what it should be, cause you have time to come over here. I was never ever on some Xboxsite discussing with it's fanboys, my PC and PS2 just leave me no time for it. 152 -
to comment 149Havoc 12.16.2005 20:35 Yea I've seen the video a long time ago when they first showed the mgs4 trailer but then I couldn't find it, thanks for posting it. 153 -
...no reasoningUnregistered - Akakage 12.16.2005 21:20 Not anything pro-xbox in my comment...just facts. When u mass produce anything there are bound to be some faulty copies. Especially with electronics. It happened with psx, gamecube, xbox, ps2, psp, dcast, nes, atari, snes, gameboy, ipods, vcrs..etc. Managing/owning a game retail store IS working in the game industry, while not as cool as being a developer it does gain you access to industry only events such as E3. I know that survey did not include all 400,000 x360 owners. So there is no way to prove how "accurate" said survey is. As far as disc scratching that isn't a defect if you reposition a floating disc while its spinning..like an idiot you deserve to have a scratched disc. That's one of the reason's why there were so many people complaining of scratched discs for ps2, idiots moving the system vertical while its running. That being said...its not being pro-xbox to say that the guy is gonna loose the suit its my opinion. He has to prove that the system was rushed (they said fall 2005 4 years ago when the xbox was released) and that Msoft new of the defect but shipped them anyway. Good luck to him..but doesn't look good for him. I did some research and it looks like the PS2 got sony sued and they settled, because of the DISC READ ERROR...further backing up what I said about PS2. Back on topic..I'm still just not convinced about this whole....HD thing. I can't justify a couple thousand on a TV for a feature I will barely notice. Same thing with HDDVD & Blu-Ray. If they aren't the same price as current DVD movies...count me out!!! 154 -
PAUL CERULA 12.16.2005 22:21 Hahahaha, You guys love the MGS guy Kojima right. He agrees himself that the xbox 360 and ps3 are very very close in performance. If you ps3 fans believe anyone you should believe this guy. You can hear it from an interviewer on 1up.com. Like I've said before to everyone PS3 is very very close in performance to the xbox 360. I'm never going to second guess myself again. 155 -
PAUL CERULA 12.16.2005 22:31 That may be old news I'm not sure but as you guys will realize when you buy the ps3 your buying a blu-ray drive and 1080p. Sorry bill gates all your wasted time here righting and researching articles is now meaningless. What's on paper is not necessarily what's is the actual performance is. Blu-ray MAY become the next media format and if it does don't expect to buy blu-ray movies before the next 5 years.... 156 -
Unregistered - G 12.16.2005 22:53 "You must be very curious about the PS3 and also the Xbox360 experience isn't what it should be, cause you have time to come over here" yes. but that isn't a bad thing since im for both systems. meaning i'll be buying and camping out for ps3 also. they'll both have their ups and downs. i just hate fanboys that give misleading information. with all the hating going on, you can't really trust a survey with so much bias opinions going around. i doubt none of the 15% were fanboys. 157 -
more HD infoBillGatesSucks 12.17.2005 00:25 I copied and pasted the following from these two links: http://www.digital-digest.com/highdefdvd/faq.html#faq301 http://www.digital-digest.com/highdefdvd/faq.html#faq415 3.15 PlayStation 3 3.15.1 Why is the PS3 being mentioned in this FAQ? Did you copy and paste the wrong section into the wrong FAQ?The Sony PS3 is indeed important to the success or failure of the BD format. As mentioned above, Sony is one of the major backers of the BD format, and so it is no surprise that the next generation game console, the PS3, will use BD as its primary format. But thanks for assuming that it was a mistake on my part. 3.15.2 Will the PS3 be able to playback BD movies? Yes. If not at the time of launch (due to lack of any BD movies or a settled specification), then later on with software/firmware updates. The PS3 is capable of 1080p output, so full resolution BD playback could be supported. 3.15.3 Why is PS3's support for BD significant enough to warrant an entire chapter in this FAQ? Because people like playing games, and the PS3 will most likely be the most popular game console once it is released, and if not, it will still be in the top 3. If anything, this could tip the format race in favor of BD over HD DVD, and certainly doesn't hurt Sony, which had the choice of having a proprietary format for its game console, or something just as good. 3.15.4 What about the Xbox 360? See section 4.15 3.16 Technical details overview Laser Type: Blue-violet laser Laser Wavelength: 405nm Track Pitch: 0.32µm Read Power: 0.35mW Disc size: 120mm Capacity: Single Layer: 25GB Dual Layer: 50GB Transfer Rate: 36 Mbps (1x) Video Resolution: 1080i (1920x1080 HD, 50i, 60i) 1080p (1920x1080 HD, 24p) 720p (1280x720, 50p, 60p, 24p) SD (720x576/480, 50i, 60i) Video Compression: MPEG-2 MPEG-4 AVC Microsoft VC-1 Audio Resolution/Compression: TBA Copy Protection AACS ROM Mark BD+ File System: DF 2.6 4.15.1 Since the Sony PS3 will support BDs, will the Xbox 360 support HD DVD?There are no public plans at the moment to have HD DVD support in the Xbox 360, although Bill Gates has hinted that an updated Xbox 360 with HD DVD support may be available in the future. At the time of release, however, Xbox 360 will rely on the DVD format for distribution, with no support for any of the future high definition formats. The game console itself will be able to output high definition pictures (at 1080i), so the exclusion of HD movie playback support is a bit confusing. But this is probably the price Microsoft has to pay in order to release their console earlier than the competition, and without having to choose one format over another (Microsoft's VC-1 codec is supported by both major high definition formats, and this gives you an indication of the fence-sitting attitude that Microsoft will take towards this issue). Most likely, Microsoft is waiting (just like most of us) to see whether BD or HD DVD will win the format wars, and back one over the other. They would like to back HD DVD due to BD's association with Sony, but I don't think they want to be in a situation where their game console uses a failed format. Microsoft may even go with the FVD format, which it is supporting by allowing its video and audio codecs to be used for the format (see section 6.8 and 6.9). Update (October 2nd, 2005): Microsoft has officially backed the HD DVD format, along with Intel. While there is still no official news that the Xbox 360 will have HD DVD capabilities, this news does suggest that the Xbox 360 will have this capability in the future if the HD DVD format is not a total failure. Spartan/Paul said "Blu-ray MAY become the next media format and if it does don't expect to buy blu-ray movies before the next 5 years...." Quote taken from link in this posting: "Panasonic has started testing a production line for producing dual layer BDs, although most expect full production of dual layer BDs to be available in the second half of 2006." Okay, so now will you please shut up about BD movies not being available any time soon? Toshiba's already working on dual layer production, which means they can already make single layer. 158 -
PAUL CERULA 12.17.2005 01:28 Previous writer that's not what I meant exactly. I know a bunch of movie companies will make blu-rays.....duh. So I quess according to you and people like Bill Gates it's a fact blu-ray will be the new format for all next gen media and not hd-dvd. YOU DON'T KNOW....many things can change before sony actually releases the ps3 next winter. Sony releasing in spring is such bull, it's just a scam to get fans to wait a longer with less pain. They don't even have a final product and you expect them to make a worldwide delivery in a few months. Also to reiterate the FACT I said earlier...yes MGS guy Kojima agrees himself that the xbox 360 and ps3 are very very close in performance. If you ps3 fans believe anyone you should believe this guy. You can hear it from an interviewer on 1up.com. Like I've said before to everyone PS3 is very very close in performance to the xbox 360. I'm never going to second guess myself again. 159 -
to comment 154Havoc 12.17.2005 01:41 We already know this, there's not a single developer that says the ps3 blows 360 out of the water so you could say that the ps3 and 360 are close or very very close in performence, We already know from what the developers say that the ps3 is either slighlty or significantly more powerful than the 360. What we have to figure out is what do the developers mean by slightly better or close performenc and we won't know this untill we actually see games on the ps3 to compare. Because your definition of close performence is different from someone elses and I honostly don't think that two different companies make two different consoles two different cpu's two different gpu's and they happen to come out with two consoles that are the same. They can be close but one is going to be better than the other, it doesn't matter which one it is, but you will see a difference between the two. None the less both consoles will be powerful or should I say Ferraris and will make pc fans a little jealous for a while. 160 -
How much?Unregistered - Robert Nelson 12.17.2005 02:53 All of this sounds fantastic. Almost too good to be true. How much is it going to cost? $400? I seriously doubt it. 161 -
whateverUnregistered - ive played the 360 12.17.2005 06:09 Xbox 360 is not an Xbox 1.5 I'll tell you that right now. I'd like to see the xbox play call of duty 2. hahaha i love when people who haven't even played on the console say its xbox 1.5 162 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.17.2005 08:09 I have played it on Xbox and my PC and it looks same, LOL. Also everyone who says the performance of both console is close and say that developers said that, please give here links to that interviews. It sounds like MS propaganda, just compare sonys real time videos to everything MS has to offer. It easily blows MS away. Then compare the technology of both consoles. Another easy blowout. You can say what you want Billyfanboys, come launchtime and you will all eat your words. I go even so far to say that sonys 1st generation games will blowout MS 2nd generation games. And that although PS3 is harder to develope for. I wonder how big the gap will be when the programmers learn to use the PS3 hardware correctly. This will probably be a total blowout, a differance like between PS1 and PS2. 163 -
-- Deleted by Mod --Unregistered - Joe 12.17.2005 17:29 -- Deleted by Mod -- 164 -
God your lame #152Unregistered - Jack Bag 12.17.2005 17:43 Ya just don't know when to quit. Yeah KazBukaki fanboyz are no different. Give it a rest. 165 -
I meant 162 and the rest of you Unregistered - Jack Bag 12.17.2005 17:45 I'm gunna incompass all you lame-o's 166 -
Unregistered - phabeo 12.17.2005 18:24 Sony is realy taking alot of shots at the xbox they must be worried or the ps3 is not as good. I was planning on getting the ps3 when it comes out. but I think I will wait a few months after they launch when ever that will be. nintendo is the only one that has been honest so far. 167 -
To #158BillGatesSucks 12.17.2005 18:33 I went to 1up.com and could not find any Kojima interview where he supposedly says the 360 and PS3 are the same or that MGS4 could run on the 360. Please give us a link to it. Of course, it doesn't matter if it could run on the 360, many games do that it's called MULTI-PLATFORMING. They'd just have to dumb it down for the 360, that's all. Paul said "Blu-ray MAY become the next media format and if it does don't expect to buy blu-ray movies before the next 5 years...." Then I quoted: "Panasonic has started testing a production line for producing dual layer BDs, although most expect full production of dual layer BDs to be available in the second half of 2006." Then Paul said: "that's not what I meant exactly. I know a bunch of movie companies will make blu-rays....." Okay, so what exactly did you mean? Sony is going to have Blu Ray in the PS3 and Blu Ray players out next year, that's the plan. There are going to be studios publishing DVDs for Blu Ray (as well as HD-DVD if the format isn't dropped by Toshiba) by next year, that's the plan. There's going to be a big format battle, that's inevitable. So, I'm just not getting what you mean when you say "don't expect to buy blu-ray movies before the next 5 years...." when players AND movies for it will be out by next year. Initially, yes, games for the two systems are going to be similar. But it will be in the first party developments where the differences will become evident. The cell really has the stuff to bring gameplay to the next level with AI and physics etc. allowing developers to expand interactivity. The 360 is an improvment over the xbox, but it's just more of the same - more polygons, improved graphics and sound and an improved online system. It's not really a step forward, it's just more of the same. IF the two systems are going to be as close as you say and Sony is just blowing a lot of smoke, then what does that say about MS and the 360 if it's just the same as the PS3? And if the 360 really is as good as you're saying, then why is there so much controversy about it even being truly next gen? Not just here but in general? If it IS as good as you say, then there'd be no controversy, would there? So, something definately is wrong. 168 -
Unregistered - Tony 12.17.2005 19:11 everyone should wait until the ps3 gets here before they pass judgement who knows it might be a good machine 169 -
# 167Unregistered - I hate Sony fanboys 12.17.2005 21:54 Here you go moron, since you are incapable of navigating around a website, here's the link to the interview, http://www.1up.com/do/minisite?cId=3146425 170 -
Unregistered - G 12.17.2005 22:40 December 16, 2005 - In a recent Web interview with Hideo Kojima, the master of all things Metal Gear Solid explained that creating Metal Gear Solid 4 is technically possible on Xbox 360. - http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/676/676685p1.html 171 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.17.2005 23:04 Everything can be made multiplatform, but the big question is with same quality? The answer is no and you should start asking yourself why all the 360 developers can't do anything that looks as impressive as the real time PS3 stuff ;-) 172 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.17.2005 23:15 I wonder what 163 said, billyfanboy must got really upset and couldn't controll his feelings, LOL. BTW billyfanboys what are you doin here? You don't have enough fun with your brand new "nextgen" console and have nothing better to do than reading PS3 news? Don't worry, the rescue will come next year. 173 -
Unregistered - yo 12.18.2005 00:11 eh. is this how fanboys go in denial. i don't think " Metal Gear Solid explained that creating Metal Gear Solid 4 is technically possible " meant lesser quality. would be stupid to say it that way cause then you would technically be able to then say that with any sytem that can do 3d (i.e. saturn, with models as sprites? = mgs4) 174 -
Unregistered - theSeus 12.18.2005 01:04 Yo, your comment was one of the few intelligent posts on this topic. 175 -
Hmm...Unregistered - Hmm... 12.18.2005 04:51 Hehehehe, nice one 172. I agree with 'Billgatesucks'. The 360 is just more of the same, improvements here and there that no doubt make the 360 a decent console, but nothing special either. But PS3 on the other hand is using revolutionary technology. IBM themselves say that they didnt expect to develop something like the 'cell' until 2015. The 360, whats so revolutionary about it ? I mean, you can already purchase better graphics cards than the ATI 520. Its like comparing a horse (360) to a car(PS3). Sure, both are able to transport you to places, but one is considerably better than the other with lots more features included. 176 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.18.2005 09:28 Kojima already said it wouldn't be with same quality. He maybe said the differance wouldn't be too big, but how can he say that if he didn't even work with Xbox360 as he admitted? He probably thinks hes a genius and would do what any other 360 developer can't and as I said before you should really start asking yourself why all the 360 developers can't do anything that looks as impressive as the real time PS3 stuff and that although it's easier to develope for, hmmm now thats really, really strange. 177 -
Unregistered - Vish 12.18.2005 12:18 The cell chip, nvidia gpu ,bluRay,expensive memory. 400 dollars seems a little off probaly 7 to 8 hundred. if they can give all that for four hundred i will be the first to get one. 178 -
NopeUnregistered - Someperson 12.18.2005 13:27 Sony is really rich. They are billionaires but not to the extent of Bill Gates(now bill gates is extremely rich). When Sony announced the PSP, they crammed all this technlogy in it like Wi-Fi, a lcd screen, movie playbak, music playing, on line gaming, and much more. People were amazed of how much technology they put in the PSP. After, they thought it would cost 400 dollars or more. But they found out that it only coost 250(the reason why it cost 250 is because they included all that extra in the package). 179 -
found this in another forumUnregistered - Keith 12.18.2005 17:34 PS3 not as powerful as Sony said. (http://www.gamedreamz.com/index.cgi?m=stories&s=read&id=5071) Sony has been toting the unparreled power of it's new Cell's Processor for years now. Claiming that the PS3 will run circles around the XBOX 360's core setup. Well IBM the chips creator recently put the little fella through the paces and the result may surprise you. Assuming you can read engineer! At this year's E3 (or thereabouts) Sony proclaimed that their processor could achieve 200GFLOPS! However, according to IBM's white paper, only 155.5 GFLOPS was actually achieved (Table 4). BUT, IBM's tests used all 8 SPEs. The PS3 will only use 7 SPE's, due to manufacturing yield issues. The efficiency of the Cell is 75.9% (Table 4), with of a theoretical peak of 201GFLOPs (Figure 5)--running 8 SPEs at 25.12GFLOPS apiece (Table 2). Similarly, the theoretical peak for the PS3's processor will be 176GFLOPS, using 7 SPEs at 25.12GFLOPS apiece. Assuming the same 75.9% effieciency, we could easily interpolate the PS3's Cell to be capable of 133.6GFLOPS. The take home message is that with the PS3 being cabable of 133.6 GFLOPS and the Xbox 360 being capable of 115.2 GFLOPS, the PS3 is not nearly as far ahead of the Xbox 360 as we were lead to believe. we should expect relatively similar power coming from both consoles, processor power, and ease of programming all considered. Bottomline is that the Cell isn't going to lap the XBOX 360 in terms of power. Ultimately it will be up to the developers to push each machine to it's limits, not the CPU. Original IBM report (http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-cellperf/?ca=drs-) Somehow, this does not acually surprise me that the PS3 specs would be overinflated. Seems par for the course for Sony. 180 -
MGS4 on the 360BillGatesSucks 12.18.2005 17:37 1UP: It's interesting that you think you could do this [run MGS4] on 360, though. HK: Maybe some nuance or a small details here and there might be different... I think here Kojima is supporting my original argument that although the game could be made to run on the 360, it would have to be dumbed down. To post #177 - do you have a price list of all the components Sony's going to be using? I mean, you must if you can state "400 dollars seems a little off probaly 7 to 8 hundred." How about letting the rest of us in on it? 181 -
Unregistered - Vish 12.18.2005 17:58 I priced it all out on ebay thanx for asking 182 -
Number 175Unregistered - Alexander 12.18.2005 18:09 "Its like comparing a horse (360) to a car(PS3). Sure, both are able to transport you to places, but one is considerably better than the other with lots more features included." What extra features has the PS3 got then, that have actually been confirmed? I think its the 360 with the extra features, that was the whole point, microsoft working on the software side of things. Give me some features... 183 -
MGS4Unregistered - Akakage 12.18.2005 18:46 In the interview...he isn't saying...MGS4 would have to be "dumbed" down, he saying a few nuances or small details may have to be changed. The word nuance means "A subtle or slight degree of difference, as in meaning, feeling, or tone; a gradation". So that being said the difference would be minimal. PS3 has a faster processor so maybe PS3 can handle a couple more characters on-screen or maybe PS3 has better lighting effects or maybe PS3 has better particle effects. Whatever the difference it would be a subtle change something that you might not even notice at first. If Kojima-san couldn't produce the game at the same level of quality he would have said...no its impossible to run MGS4 on X360 as Kojima-san has never been one to tap-dance around issues. Kojima-san statement hold merit as he is "THE PREMIERE DEVELOPER" on PS3. Only further backing up what others and I myself have been saying from the start. Both Consoles are fantastic. Kojima-san said right after that statement..HARDWARE is no longer an ISSUE. Kojima-san has access to X360 and PS3 dev. kits, He obviously knows what he's talking about as the "real-time" trailer shows. So I'm more incline to believe him than any fanboy I may encounter on here. I don't think there is an Msoft or Sony fan here that would even attempt to discredit Kojima-san(not like you can anyway). That being said..case closed...both consoles are very similiar in performance..MR. Metal Gear/Mr. PS3 Hideo Kojima has even said so. It can't get anymore cut and dry than that. Anything else...ish mindless, idiotic fanboy dribble. Please Kojima-san Hurry and make a new Z.O.E.!!!! 184 -
Kojima excertUnregistered - Akakage 12.18.2005 18:54 here's a much bigger portion of that conversation.. "1UP: With your debut of the Tokyo Game Show Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer, which has seen wide distribution in both Japanese magazines, online, and in the U.S. Official PlayStation Magazine recently, it really heralded the dawn of the next-generation. Everything else has been polished and nice, but this was so powerful, so compelling you even had to do a real-time demonstration at TGS to prove it was running on PS3 hardware. That said, it makes you wonder how much of a gap there is between the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3. Do you think you could create MGS4, technically, on 360 if you wanted to? HK: Yes, that's technically possible. I want to express, first of all, it's not that I don't like Xbox or 360. It's just that last year, our hands were really tied to MGS3, so the other Konami developers were able to get their hands on the 360 tools and hardware earlier. But we simply didn't have time to do that last year. So, meaning that we were behind the other developers in terms of 360 development. Kojima Productions has this philosophy that we want to be the first in everything regarding new technology. So after we finished MGS3, the option was to work on the PS3 to try all the new things for Metal Gear Solid 4. The only reason for this is I'm the kind of person who wants to be the first person on the moon, and don't want to be asking "what the moon was like?" from other people. So that's the real story behind selecting PS3. 1UP: It's interesting that you think you could do this on 360, though. HK: Maybe some nuance or a small details here and there might be different, but I feel that hardware is no longer a matter. I'm just talking about PS3, 360 and PC. Revolution is totally different, but there are really no differences among the other three." someone posted part of that earlier...if you only read half...you'll only get half the meaning. As its clearly being stated by Kojima-san....It's gonna be all about the games....as "hardware is no longer a matter". 185 -
StillUnregistered - Someperson 12.18.2005 19:22 Are you people still argueing over the interview with Hideo Kojima. Just wait until Sony makes the PS3 playable and think for yourself. But I come up with a logic. XBox fanboys(noticed that I did not say fan) are the people who probably owned the Dreamcast. Probably others are the angry consumers that found out that the PS2 killed the Dreamcast(I still miss that machine). Others are the ones that were disspointed with the PS2. Some might even be the ancient Sega fanboys. The rest are people who just like the XBox the more then any other system 186 -
StillUnregistered - Someperson 12.18.2005 19:22 Are you people still argueing over the interview with Hideo Kojima. Just wait until Sony makes the PS3 playable and think for yourself. But I come up with a logic. XBox fanboys(noticed that I did not say fan) are the people who probably owned the Dreamcast. Probably others are the angry consumers that found out that the PS2 killed the Dreamcast(I still miss that machine). Others are the ones that were disspointed with the PS2. Some might even be the ancient Sega fanboys. The rest are people who just like the XBox the more then any other system 187 -
Meant Unregistered - Someperson 12.18.2005 19:23 What I meant by Sega fanboys is the people who owned the Genesis instead of the Playstation or just hated the Playstation all together. 188 -
-- Deleted by Mod --Unregistered - Someperson 12.18.2005 19:25 -- Deleted by Mod -- 189 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.18.2005 20:18 As I'm a lazy bastard here is a copy and paste as yn answer for what 184 said: "Kojima already said it wouldn't be with same quality. He maybe said the differance wouldn't be too big, but how can he say that if he didn't even work with Xbox360 as he admitted? He probably thinks hes a genius and would do what any other 360 developer can't and as I said before you should really start asking yourself why all the 360 developers can't do anything that looks as impressive as the real time PS3 stuff and that although it's easier to develope for, hmmm now thats really, really strange." Nuff said 190 -
Kojima = proUnregistered - Akakage 12.18.2005 22:35 Seeing as though Hideo Kojima is a professional game developer and has been in his profession for many years..I think its safe to assume that he knows what he is talking about. He can and should be able to tell what is possible on the X360 and PS3 by specs alone. He knows the "real" performance capabilities of the PS3 and has access to X360 dev. kits as well. If he says that he can produce MGS4 on X360 then its safe to say that MGS4 can be faithfully re-produced on X360. Just looking at the specs of the systems alone show that both systems are very similiar in power and design. Main differences...PS3 = more floating point operations per second and Msoft = more general purpose processing power. both are 3.2 ghz and both have 500mhz GPU's. Both consoles were developed concurrently so there is no way PS3 will be "way more powerful" than X360. PS2 came out 2 years before Xbox...Msoft was able to use materials almost 2 generations newer than PS2. That is not the case this time. 6months is the difference..specs are already finalized the difference is marginal at best. Almost all developers are saying this...now including Hideo Kojima..one of the most respected developers in the business. If he says it can be done, then there is no doubt in my mind(there never was) that it can be done. I've been preaching this ever since I came to this forum..Both Consoles will be great and the difference between them won't be as significant as the one between PS2 and Xbox. I'd rather listen to what the pros are saying then believe the hype...get myself all pumped up only to be let down by sony(again..remember the ps2 hype machine). While Kojima's word isn't law...I'd put my money on his word before any one of the fanboys I've encountered on this forum. As his opinion is educated and rooted in experience..not fanaticism. All will be settled when we finally see some playable PS3 games..*cough* DMC4 *cough*. 191 -
I don't understand the purpose of this debate?Furious 12.18.2005 22:42 Kojima, has stated he wants to create games for the consoles exclusively! Kojima also stated that muli-platform games do not take advantage of the console's architecture resulting in overall poor results. I'm not saying multi-platform games are bad titles, I'm just stating that multi-platform games do not reach their full potential... I'm sure Kojima could produce an amazing game on the 360 it's a powerful machine, but we all know Kojima can produce an incredible title on the PS3 the MGS 4 demo is definative proof. The argument regarding MGS 4 is pointless Kojima has stated he has no plans to port the game to other consoles. Titles created exclusively for the next-gen consoles will be the most impressive titles from a technological standpoint it's only common sense. I just don't see a point in debating this issue further. Peace 192 -
to comment 191Havoc 12.18.2005 23:02 I basically said this same thing in the other news artical about the trailer. Exclusives titles will be the key factor in seperating the the two consoles from each other performence wise. 193 -
Ps3's graphics card will not have a unified shader Unregistered - Optimusv2 12.18.2005 23:53 Ps3's graphics card will not have a unified shader architecture and the fact that the 360's videocard does means the 360 is definetly more powerful than the ps3 in terms of graphics power. I'm not saying the ps3 is terrible, but based on things I read recently between what nvidia and ati are doing with their next gen chips its become apparent that what ati did with the 360's gpu by adding a unified shader architecture and the 10mb embedded dram is revolutionary for video cards and is the future of where video cards are going. Nvidia naturally claimed a unified shader architecture was a bad idea, but now news is out that nvidia will in fact be using a unified shader architecture for their upcoming 2006 video card release. Most videocards currently even the most high end ones run at about 55-65 efficiency with a unified shader they can get the videocard on the 360 to run at 100% and 4xaa can be activated at practically NO performance hit which is amazing. Ati recommends that every single developer enable 4xaa on every single xbox360 game. Keep in mind i'm not saying the ps3 sucks I'll be buying one, but this unified shader ati put on the xbox360's gpu is indeed as bit a deal as ati was making it out to be the entire time. Also found out that since sony found out the cell wasn't as good for graphics as they originally thought it was they included an nvidia pc chip which ultimately helped the ps3 be capable of that dual hd display capability it has. The fact that nvidia adopted what they were originally saying was a bad idea proves the superiority of a unified shader architecture. Keep in mind I'm not flaming or insulting the ps3 I'm just putting down some facts here for people to see with proof. I'm not anti-ps3 and all that nonsense I don't care which system does the best as long as there are alot of good games for both that I can enjoy after coming home from college each day. Below are a couple links where nvidia initially denied the advantage of a unified shader architecture, but most developers agree its the future and nvidia themselves are using a unified shader architecture on their 2006 video cards. Its amazing that ati got this sort of amazing technology on the 360 so quickly. I already knew there was more to the 360's power, but now I'm even happier I decided to get an xbox360 right away. Can't wait for the ps3 though cause I gotta get my hands on that metal gear 4 There is alot of technology on the 360 especially on the 360's video card that has yet to touch a pc. http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?article_id=9806 http://www.bit-tech.net/columns/2005/05/13/xbox_360_pc_enthusiasts/1.html http://www.nforcershq.com/article3503.html http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/xbox-three-sixty3.htm This last link i'm putting down is the most interesting and informative article I've seen on the 360 gpu technology anywhere on the internet. I guess it helps that you have a head guy from ati being interviewed. http://www.firingsquad.com/features/xbox_360_interview/ I'm also getting a ps3, but I'm a bit disappointed that nvidia didn't go with the best of their videocards for the ps3. The ps3 video card is slightly less powerful than a 7800gtx I was hoping we'd get our hands on their next generation chip before it hits the pcs like ati did for the 360. The 360 gpu is currently the most powerful videocard out even more powerful than ones on the pc. Ati used their next generation videocard a version newer than the x1800xt. Clocks speeds aren't higher, but the unified shader and the embedded dram change all of that. Now I see that when that micrsoft exec said that the requirement for all 360 games would be 720p at 2xAA minimum. The 360 gpu can run 4xaa at no performance hit whatsoever I guess that microsoft guy was just playing it safe probably didn't have a total understanding of the gpu's innerworkings. 194 -
100% proof that the 360's videocard is more powerful Unregistered - Optimusv2 12.18.2005 23:55 Guys if you want 100% proof that the 360's videocard is more powerful read my previous post it shows links and everything. A unified shader architecture has YET to touch any videocard for the pc. Nvidia originally said that a unified shader was a bad idea, but guess what the ps3's next generation videocards being released next year has a unified shader architecture. Its IMPOSSIBLE for the ps3's videocard to be more powerful because the 360 is using videocard technology that isn't yet available anywhere in the world EXCEPT on the xbox360. The ps3's gpu is slightly less powerful than a 7800gtx whereas the 360's gpu goes beyond even the x1800xt AND any video card currently out for the pc because NONE of them have a unified shader architecture. Read what I wrote and the links to back it up and see how much of a big deal a unified shader architecture is and how big a deal the 10mb of embedded dram is. 4xaa can be enabled on all xbox360 games at NO performance hit. The xbox360 videocard runs at 100% efficiency at all times when 4x aa multisample is on its at 95-99% efficiency. Every high end video card out currently runs at an efficiency of 50-60 because they don't have a unified shader. A unified shader improves performance substantially. 195 -
Unregistered - "Cell" 12.19.2005 04:21 The "Cell" processor is also able to render polygons and shaders. So not only does the PS3 have the RSX, but it also has the cell processor. 196 -
Unregistered - wotter 12.19.2005 05:00 Link that 7800gtx>rsx??? Nvidia stated the rsx will be the most powerfull nvidicard when it will be released. Btw, nvidia doesn't want to use unified shaders, because it has yet to prove its advantage. 197 -
Still SAME old POINTLESS arguementsUnregistered - Feral-phoenix 12.19.2005 05:03 Every one knows that 720p and 1080i is high def. it makes know sense to argue otherwise. Sure 1080p is the top of the line HD, but there is a lot to consider when comparing the differences.....first of all at this point HD broadcasts are only available in 720p or 1080i-*there is nothing being broadcast in 1080p content from TV networks, and there won't be for along time(bandwidth issues), now that being said Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will allow 1080p quality movies and games, but predicting when they will actually start selling movies and what they will cost is the hard part?? (expensive!) 3rd and probably most notable is that even if you have a 1080p vs 1080i capable HDTV both resolutions are so high that the difference will be so small in most TV's that it won't be noticeable unless you are sitting up close in front of the TV. -source: http//reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6361600-1.html My point is sorta like 60 fps vs 90 fps-at a certain point when you compare the same type of visual technology, the human eye can't really distinguish the difference, this is a little different when talking about 1080p, because its slightly noticeable, but like I said its very hard unless you sit very close (who would do that?) and even then its still hard to tell. (unless you ask the sales guy at Circuit City) Now I don't think most gamers will pay at least an extra ID="MainNewsBlogCom",000 for the same model HDTV w/1080p just so they can play a videogame and maybe get a few extra pixels. Consumers are'nt stupid the advantage of 1080p is too small to legitimize spending ID="MainNewsBlogCom",000 to HAVABlog,000 more over already exspenive HDTV of the same model. M$ was smart to only utilize only up to 1080i because 1080p is more expensive without a significant advantage and by the time 1080p becomes mainstream we will be talking about XBOX-Z and PS4, BTW I can't believe that some of you fanboys believe that they won't need to make another PS for 10 yrs. when its graphx card is already almost outdated. I know its already been said but the reality is that, all you fanboys should listen to Kojima because its really not about the hardware anymore they both are capable of just about the same....what matters will be who will actually have the best support, and optimize the system's potential- which leads to the best games, and frankly "best games" for the most part will be a matter of preference in what type of games you prefer to play. So stop all the FANBOY dreaming and just buy the system you want, excuse me if I sound bitter because I already bought a HDTV and Im still waiting for my 360 #$%!, and I will buy a PS3 in 2 yrs after it gets cheap! 198 -
Unregistered - wotter 12.19.2005 05:03 BTW combo rsx + cell = going to blow your socks away 199 -
WhyUnregistered - Optimusv2 12.19.2005 09:21 if ATI's unified shadier is not proven technology, why is NVIDIA adopting it on their next line up of cards? and you ppl talk about Cell this and that, remember that PS2 had more processor power than the XBOX, what did that get SONY? My point in all of this is that PS3 cannot pull off 1080p with their hardware at a descent frame rate, maybe without any AA they can….. 200 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.19.2005 10:02 LOL 360 more powerfulthan PS3 I laugh my ass off. Please enlighten me then why all the 360 games looks so poor compared to the realtime PS3 stuff? And again what Kojima said it's nonsense, he can't know it for sure when he didn't work with the 360. How many times did we have that the developers couldn't do everything they first wanted and realised that only until they were in the middle of the progress? Way too many times. And even if it would be possible, I'm sure he would have to use all the tricks he knows and would bring the 360 to it's limits. Everything what I saw from the 360 looks very poor compared to the realtime PS3 stuff and thats although PS3 is harder to develope for. Now thats really strange, isn't it Billyfanboys? And also don't forget that Kojima is working for Konami and Konami has a deal with MS. 201 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.19.2005 10:10 A significant differance between PS2 and Xbox? Man, I don't know what you smokin but I want some of that ;-). You will see soon what a significant differance is. MS couldn't do much better console even if they released 2 years later, now they release 6 months earlier, do the math. 202 -
Unregistered - Twist96 12.19.2005 11:29 So, #200, you're comparing Sony Tech Demos to real, completed 1st-gen Xbox 360 games? Great comparison. I don't doubt that the MGS demo is in-game, I believe Kojima could pull that off. But noticed when he comments about how he could do it on 360, well there you go. I believe, and although a lot of you Sony Fanboys have skimed past it, read #193, #194. PWNED! I really don't think there is much of a difference between 60fps and 120fps, the human eye couldn't disgunish it, really, and it is a petty thing. A lot of Sony Fanboys are saying that the 1st-Gen 360 games are an example of performance throughout its lifetime. WRONG! Even Perfect Dark Zero looks amazing, you've only taken to compare the ports from last-gen, really. MGS4- again, I don't doubt Kojima, but that could defintaly be done on 360. Everyone raving about Lost Planet? Nah, I see nothing graphically special in that, the cliffs are blocky, the characters have eyes like they are pasted on in 2D...underwhelming. I am still thinking about getting a PS3, for sure. It has impressed me quite a lot, actually. I don't Spring 2006 is likely, we've seen nothing close to final details, let alone a release, and I'm waiting for something beyond Tech Demos, thank you very much. I think Ken Kataguri saying 360 is not true HD is BS. By techical definition, 720p, i, 1080i are all HD. Do you REALLY notice a difference going from 1080 I to 1080 P? And does anyone have a TV to support anything like that? No. 203 -
bravo, bravo!!!Unregistered - DonkeyDoo 12.19.2005 12:25 #200 sums it up….. comparing real-time CGI’s to actual game play….. bravo, bravo!!! we have a very logical person here someone give him a freaking medal or something….. 204 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.19.2005 13:23 @202 Not now but in 1-2 years it will become standard and 360 as sadly as it is won't support true hdtv. 205 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.19.2005 13:27 @203 Well Motor Storm shows also actual gameplay, but if thats not enough so let me say that 360 realtime CGI's look very poor compared to PS3 realtime CGI's. Now that should be a gold medal ;-D 206 -
RSX vs. ATI (post #193 and 194)BillGatesSucks 12.19.2005 14:08 RSX - 24 shader pipelines @ 5.7 ops = 136.8 sops ATI 360 - 48 shader pipelines @ 2 ops = 96 sops SO, even though the 360's GPU has more shader pipelines, the RSX can handle more ops. Once again, the PS3 is better than the 360. And if you want to read real comparisons and find out why nvidia is not using unified architecture for the RSX check out these links: http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2423 http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-x-1985-x-x-x I was checking out the video settings on Gran Turismo 4. It can output at 1080i, the same as what the 360 can do. So, the PS2 can have the same video output as a 36o. Hmmmmm. 207 -
realtime vs gameplayUnregistered - Akakage 12.19.2005 14:09 I wouldn't go as far as saying that X360 is more powerful than PS3. X360 does have a better GPU, while PS3 has a better CPU. Both consoles have similiar specs...3.2 ghz cpus, 500mhz gpu (550mhz for PS3) so as Kojima-san said Hardware is no longer an issue. As far as 360 gameplay not matching PS3 "real-time" there are simple answers for this. First and foremost almost all games released on X360 are ports of Xbox or PC games. Secondly most of these games were rushed to meet launch...a prime example of this is Quake 4 there is no way they should have released this game with its framerate in the shape its in but to make it at launch they released it as it was. Kojima-san himself said that MGS4 ish coming along great and its gameplay looks almost identical to the trailer...(almost). Real-time trailers and gameplay footage are not the same as his statement implies. Kojima-san also said that its possible to make MGS4 on X360 so I think its safe to say that both systems are similiar in power. I'm sure as I said before that each one has its advantages over the other in certain areas but the results will ultimately be very close to the same. Its no longer a question of who is more powerful Kojima-san killed that argument with his statement...its a question of who has the games you want. While X360 may not get MGS4 he hinted at MGS online so that could work. I personally would love to see Z.O.E. with online and standalone components. Zone of the Enders online...would truly be amazing!!! 208 -
konamiUnregistered - Akakage 12.19.2005 14:20 Kojima-san does work for Konami however he has freedom to do what he wants as Kojima Productions is his company. Sure Konami has some games coming for #60..but they have games for PS3 as well. Konami's best title...MGS is coming on PS3..so I doubt Kojima would talk positively about X360 because of some "deal" that konami has with Msoft. Yeah its a great deal X360 gets rumble roses PS3 gets MGS..gimme a break. He is speaking from experience there aren't many developers revered and respected as much as Kojima and his track-record speaks for itself. If he says X360 run MGS4 then I do not doubt for a second that it can. Seeing as how he has access to both as well as knows what the specs mean to a developer I'd take his word over anyone in this forum...wouldn't u agree?? Both will be great....it comes down..to who has what games. 209 -
to comment 193Havoc 12.19.2005 15:10 What are you talking about the rsx is more powerful than the 7800gtx. http://www.nforcershq.com/article3417.html ATI's approach towards a unified shader doesn't make it better. Are the 48 pipelines as strong the 24 pipelines in the RSX? Yes nvidia said they will try a unified shader approach but they said only if they can make the hardware work faster unified. http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=2492 The unified approach will probably be the future when it starts to evolve and engineers find ways to really make it work, and the first step is the 360. 210 -
Havoc 12.19.2005 15:26 Can mgs4 run on the xbox 360 yes. Half life 2 can run on xbox, splinter cell can run on the ps2, RES4 can run on the ps2. How would it sound if kojima said no im sorry but MGS4 will not run on the 360 it's just not technically possible? Of course the MGS4 can run on the xbox 360 but we never know how it will look. 211 -
ExactlyUnregistered - Someperson 12.19.2005 17:48 Absolutely Havoc. We will never know. But if he did, it would not look exactly the same. 212 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.19.2005 20:05 You hit the nail on the head Havoc. Good job 213 -
Unregistered - Jake 12.19.2005 20:07 YAWN I am going to bed 214 -
YeahUnregistered - Someperson 12.19.2005 20:08 Yeah what he said 215 -
WhatUnregistered - Someperson 12.19.2005 20:09 Jake, you are an XBox fanboy aren't you 216 -
Unregistered - Omar 12.19.2005 20:17 This whole topic is so stale lets move on already 217 -
Seriously!!!Unregistered - jake0401 12.19.2005 21:06 Seriously, everyone is going berserk over the ps3 being a smidgen better than the xbox 360. And folks thats simply all there is to it, stats dont lie and u can have ur jacked up 3x a 360 dreams but its not true. THe 360 will compare to the Ps3 in the same way the ps2 compared to the xbox, and all of us ps2 owners know how that was, bliss. I loved my ps2 but I have moved on now and am enjoying the 360. The thing I do not understand is that everyone bashes the 360 saying its obsolete to the ps3. Then I hear posts that its only good on an hdtv. Well folks that extra horsepower in ur ps3 is going to be used to enhance those little hdtv details just a smidgen more, and how many of you really are going to notice it? I personally have HDTV and it is sick with the 360, but to realize the 360s potential you need to have that hdtv. Most people dont have them yet and I am wondering how many people will even fully realize this gens potential graphic wise. I mean seriously 3% of people will probably run their ps3 on 1080p. 218 -
Hey Ps3 Fans, It's not too lateUnregistered - DonkeyDoo 12.19.2005 21:13 I feel you frustration, really. If 360 was delayed for so long I would be frustrated too. Like previous writer explained clearly why wait for a console that’s a smidgen better than the 360. 360 is hear and it great, there will be killer titles releasing next year and SONY will still be putting out real-time stuff. Go and get you self a 360, get rid of your frustrations. Life is too short to wait for PS3. BestBuy, Circuit City and Target are getting some consoles this week. And when PS3 comes out buy that too, if you want to. 219 -
I don't think Sony will be having these types of problems 2 weeks after launch! This is bad news for the 360Unregistered - blah blah 12.19.2005 21:46 Only weeks after the introduction of the Xbox 360, hackers appear to have cracked their way into the software that runs the Microsoft game console. A group called "Team PI Coder" claims to have found a way to extract the source files of Xbox 360 games as they get loaded onto the console. The glimpse at game code represents the first move toward hacking the Microsoft device, said Steve Manzuik, a security product manager at eEye Digital Security. "All that has been done is that they have figured out the file system, which is not much different than the original Xbox file system," Manzuik said. "I would consider it a game hack, not really an Xbox 360 hack. But (it is) the beginning steps of one." Team PI Coder has posted details on several games to the Web along with an "extractor tool" that could potentially be used to copy games, according to Xbox-Scene.com. "Downloading such releases is illegal, and you can't do anything with them yet," Xbox-Scene.com said in a posting. The copies are useless, at least for now, because further Xbox safeguards prevent playing of the copies, and the games also won't run on a PC. In a text file describing the extracted data for Sega's Condemned: Criminal Origins, Team PI Coder said that not much can be done with the files. "You can't run these dumps yet, but you will be able to sooner or later," it wrote in the note. "So the first task is done. We hope this encourages all hackers, coders and crackers out there to take up the challenge." Microsoft wouldn't comment on the hacking work by Team PI Coder, but a company representative said the recently launched Xbox 360 is well protected. "We have made improvements on both the hardware and software side to protect Xbox 360 against piracy and modding (modification of components)," the company said in a statement on Friday. "With Xbox 360, we had the benefit of learning from our experiences on Xbox. This allowed us to identify points of weakness that were exploited by hackers in the first generation and to eliminate those vulnerabilities in Xbox 360," the Microsoft representative said. The first-generation Xbox was a popular hacker target. Add-on chips for the console--so-called "mod chips"--let consumers play pirated discs and other applications on their consoles. 220 -
DesperateUnregistered - Someperson 12.19.2005 21:50 Was that a desperate attempt to diss the PS3 or to persuade people to not get the PS3 because it ain't working XBox fanboy. But anyway, I don't have a Xbox 360 yet because there was shortages and my preorder didn't make it. I mean, I preordered my XBox 360 in July and I won't be getting mine untilMay,2006(It is really frustrating that I waited so long and now have to wait longer)f**k. But anyway, I am stil excited about it getting. I going to preordere my PS3 as soon as preorders are available 221 -
To 219Unregistered - Someperson 12.19.2005 21:52 Are you serious. You can hack the XBox 360. That isn't really suprising since it uses DirectX 222 -
StillUnregistered - Someperson 12.19.2005 21:57 Do you guys think I should cancel my preorder of the XBox 360. I have been hearing alot of promblems with the Xbox 360. I am started to feel doughtful. I mean, one of the major reasons why I got the XBox 360 was the online service, certain exclusives, and the hard drive. But anyway, do any of you guys have a Xbox 360. If you do, tell me if you had promblems with it like for instance, disk scratching or overheating. 223 -
full experienceUnregistered - anymous (spelled wrong) 12.19.2005 22:22 i think it has come to point where you need an HDTV to get the full experience fro the next generation consoles, and if you dont already have one then its a hell of a lot of money added on to a really expensive system. gaming is expensive 224 -
Guy above...Unregistered - Alexander 12.20.2005 02:30 Trust me, keep your preorder, the machine is amazing and the online is really good aswell. No overheating problems for me and it in quite a tight space - ive even had it on running for 17 hours straight (first night, lol) and it was fine. You could spend hours just pissing around on the dashboard looking at stuff and downloading from the marketplace. Keep the order and get one. Oh and if your worried about the whole HDTV thing, dont worry it stills look amazing on standard definition, but incredible on HD if you have it. 225 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.20.2005 09:20 What a funny post donkey, sorry but I'm not frustrated like probably most. I also hear it for the first time PS3 got delayed mayn times, I always thought it comes out at the end of 2006 and there is no problem for me. I have my fun with my powerful PC now, with which I can play most of the 360 stuff with same quality ;-D So even if PS3 would launch in 3 years I still wouldn't buy 360. Sony has way better games, more exclusives that you won't get on PC, so the choice ain't difficult for me which console I will buy. Even if they would be technicaly same I would wait for the PS3 and it's only sweeter that PS3 is more powerful. 226 -
Bad news for PS3Unregistered - BadNewsBear 12.20.2005 09:24 if SONY see all the people lining up in US to get the 360 they would be worried. By the time they come up with the PS3, MS would have sold millions and killer titles will be out. This maybe SONY's last console!!! 227 -
Typical PS fanboyUnregistered - bigbon_basic 12.20.2005 10:04 A couple weeks ago I decided to take a trip to my local EBgames located inside the mall. I've walked in and I seen the Xbox360 looking quite pityful because of the lack of interest everybody had for it. Then these 2 brothas walked in and one of them began playin COD2. So I was standing there watching them play and hoping they would give the game a possitive responce. So a couple of minutes past and the brotha who was just watching the game started to flipout. He was fliping out in a negative way, He started to BASH the 360 very, very, very harshly. He was sayin things like "I would'nt pay $400.00 for this S***T", "The MuthaF*** graphics dont even look that hot at all", "Mountain Dew is giving this S**T away....I would'nt even take this S***TTY system over my PS2" and the foolish thing that actually got me pissed was when he said "This game (Call of Duty2) doesn't even look half as good SOCOM2....at least on PS2 you can play up to 16 people online and its obviously a hotter game." WOWOW I simply can not believe he made these statements, and of coarse I was there to defend the 360 but he was waayyy rambunctious. He actually believe SOCOM is a better game then Call of Duty2 and He actually believes that PS2 is a better system with better games. He believes that PS3 will be almost like the 2nd coming of christ or something like that. Bottom line, I've played SOCOM 2 plenty, and that kid has no idea what he's talking about. That's a Typical PS fanboy. 228 -
Unregistered - Twist96 12.20.2005 10:54 Yeah, those demos came from in-development, not the final game, I think that is obivous, all the jaggys are there when they are not in the final version. 229 -
To # 227Unregistered - Sniper 12.20.2005 11:05 Call of duty 2: X360 http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/654/654986/call-of-duty-2-imagery-20050930084837372.jpg Socom 3: PS2 http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/053/926538_20050223_screen011.jpg I know you mention Socom 2, but that game has been out a while now compared to COD2 on X360. Even though Socom 3 doesnt look quite as good as COD2, do you seriously see leaps and bounds in the graphics of COD2 from a medioca graphical game like SOCOM 3? there are better looking games on PS2 than Socom 3. X360 is like everyone has said so far, its simply an upgraded Xbox, XBOX 1.5 I dont want to shell out $400 for an upgraded console I would rather spend that on a PC upgrade and wait for PS3 exclusives (most X360 games will also be on PC). 230 -
229 you crazy???Unregistered - DonkeyDoo 12.20.2005 13:33 anyone that says a game on 480p is better than a game on 720p is either blind or stupid. which are you? both? Yeah update you pc graphic card for 200 – 400 odd bucks. There is no help for some people. 231 -
#227 It's not simply fanboyismFurious 12.20.2005 13:41 I agree it's hard to believe someone would think Socom 3 is visually superior to COD 2 on the 360. COD 2 is an extremely impressive launch title for the 360, but not every gamer likes playing 1st person shooters. I have an issue with Microsoft's launch strategy a large number of the games were 1st person shooters, a lot of the PS2 gamers prefer 3rd person perspective. Also, call of duty only supports 8 players online this is a huge miss by the developer. If the title supported more online players it would better compete with the other multi-player online titles. Also, I agree all the 1st person shooters on the 360 is starting to get stale, we need to see a better variety of games. If the 360 launched with Ghost Recon it would have provided Socom players a true alternative on the 360. That's my 2 cents... 232 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.20.2005 14:50 I doubt sbdy said Socom is better, he probably meant the gameplay and you misunderstood him. Ghost Recon series is also on the PC and I'm playing CoD2 now without 360 and in the same quality. There is no need for trashbox and I would rather pay 400 bucks for a new card than for this trashbox. Good PC and PS3 is just a dreamteam, the games I won't get on one system I will get on the another :-P 233 -
AdmireUnregistered - Someperson 12.20.2005 16:31 But the one thing that I admire about Sony is there marketing. They were able to make everybody excited about the machine without even having that much information on it. I mean nintendo did give away few details, they didn't get the hype that they deserved. But anyway, I doubt the Playstation 3 will be released by the end of 2006. If they did, the Xbox 360 would have to much of a lead, they would have more games out and more people would have a Xbox 360. 234 -
Have you played COD2?Unregistered - DonkeyDoo 12.20.2005 16:36 COD2 is an awesome game. Single player is great. Multiplier has been rushed. On a good HDTV it beats the heck out of any PC. Who here has a 40” PC monitor? 360 beats the PC right now. If you want to get a PC that beats the 360 you got to spend around 1500 –2500 bucks. 235 -
ButUnregistered - Someperson 12.20.2005 16:37 Now, I decided to keep the preorder. But I learned something today. The Playstation 3 will have a unified service similar to Xbox live. Now I know other Sony reperesentives said that the PS3 online service will be like the PS2s. But in a new interview in PSM magazine, Kaz Harai said that what they meant is they will kepp the same buisness models as the PS2. Like for instance one of the buisness models for the PS2 was the free service. That is what they meant by buisness models 236 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.20.2005 19:23 If they will do something like Xboxlive and we have to pay for it, I won't use it. I'm already more than happy with my online PC games, BF2 rockz da house. My PC btw costed 1300 bucks, I bought it before launch and it beats 360. Of course it's more expensive, but I can do much more with it than with a console. In about 2 years I only need to upgrade my card for 200 and can still play all the games with all effects max. I also don't understand people that play fps games on consoles with joypad. The should try it on PC with keyboard and mouse. 237 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.20.2005 19:28 I also think it shouldn't be a big problem for sony even if they release at the end of 2006. I'm almoust sure that most people that bought 360 besides fanatic Xbots will buy also the PS3. The better games and superior technology will convince them. I also saw a survey in a pc magazine and most people won't buy 360 now but wait for the PS3. 238 -
To # 230Unregistered - Sniper 12.20.2005 20:39 Where did I say the game looked better? Read what I wrote again or are you blind? here's what I said. "Even though Socom 3 doesnt look quite as good as COD2, do you seriously see leaps and bounds in the graphics of COD2 from a medioca graphical game like SOCOM 3?" Socom 3 doesnt look as good as COD2, but COD2 is hardly leaps and bounds from it in graphics, even if it is in 720p. 239 -
To 236Unregistered - Someperson 12.20.2005 20:40 Playstation 3 online is free. Like I said Sony is keeping the buisness models of the PS2. For instance, one of the PS2's buisness models was a free online service. Meaning that Playstation 3 Online is free. But if it turns out that you have to pay a fee, then play online on your PC like you mentioned 240 -
XBOX 260 + PS3 = GamingUnregistered - Father of A Gamer 12.21.2005 10:31 I stood in line for 18 hrs at BestBuy for the XBOX 360. I would also stand in line for the PS3. XBOX 360 has some pro's and con's, but so will PS3. Who really cares. They are the ones getting rich here not our poor little buttocks. I really don't play much, but my son (6 yrs. old)does. He has GC,PS1 and my favorite "The Leapster" (: )not to mention he takes over my PC sometimes to play Fantastic 4, Madagascar etc... Ofcourse, my son doesn't know much about graphics and HD, Blu-Ray, 720p vs 1080p, etc... All I care about is seeing the look on his face when he plays. I bought a Samsung 56" DLP 1080p to enjoy whatever I want on it. Whether it's gaming, dvds, cable, local broadcasts or even to sit their and just look at it. You don't have to be rich to purchase an HDTV, because I would not have one trust me. All this Sony vs Microsoft vs Nintendo amount to the same thing "The Consumer's Needs". I have to admit the reading is good and some comments are funny. The moral of the story is "TO EACH THEIR OWN". lol 241 -
PAUL CERULA 12.21.2005 12:58 Kojima himself talked to a couple people at 1up.com and declared that the ps3 and xbox 360 are very close to identical in overall performance. If there's one guy ps3 fan boys will listen to it should be this guy. Sorry but ps3 and xbox 360 are marginally different 242 -
Watch thisUnregistered - Doo 12.21.2005 13:57 Fanboys, take a look at this. http://www.gamespot.com/pages/video_player/popup.php?sid=6141474&rgroup=9616 243 -
#240Mathoss 12.21.2005 14:54 Just a comment on your HDTV, most of people gets confuse on HDTV capable or compatible and NATIVE HDTV. Some TV are Native 480I line but is compatible to signal up to 1080P. That mean that it downgrades the signal from 1080 lines to 480 lines (Progressive or Intelace). I dont think you have a native 1080P cause these are much more expensive.I have seen only few 1080P NATIVE rear projection (I could be wrong, i am not perfect), and guess what they are from SONY, they are the one with SXRD technology and the cheapest price is 4K USD MSRP. I dont consider that is cheap. 244 -
PAUL CERULA 12.21.2005 16:15 PROOF OF KOJIMA saying xbox 360 and ps3 to be very very close in performance 1up Episode 9 .....look for this if link doesn't work It's near the 3/4 of the episode http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3146431 245 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.21.2005 19:32 Dream on Xbots, same question again and again, when you think they differ marginaly so why do look all realtime 360 CGI's poor compared to PS3 realtime CGI's? I'm too lazy to download some Xbot episode, but if thats true it's simply bullshit. From the specs the PS3 is way more powerful and Kojima didn't work with the 360, so his comparison is ridiculous. Even the developers need to work with the hardware to know for sure. How many times did we have that the developers couldn't do everything they first wanted and realised that only until they were in the middle of the progress? Way too many times. I have a strong feeling Billyboy tries everything to push the trashbox and Kojima has fuller pockets now ;-D And as I said before, the best thing on sony are their awesome games, something the Xbots can only dream of. 246 -
DesperateUnregistered - Someperson 12.21.2005 19:34 Are you that desperate Paul Cerula. This is what I am talking about. I think you fear that the PS3 might beat the XBox 360. What I personally think is that the PS3 will have high physics, simulation, A.I, dynamic lighting and other stuff since Sony is investing so much in these apllications in the Cell Processor 247 -
Unregistered - Ben 12.21.2005 20:25 got my new big screen hdtv set today looks so sweet. now I just have to find the 360 xbox to go with it 248 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.21.2005 20:43 Look in a public trashcan for it hehe ...LOL what for come Xbots here and make posts like that? Do they think they get sbdy jelous with it? Sorry, but it ain't working ;-D 249 -
Question?Unregistered - DonkeyDoo 12.21.2005 20:51 Anyone knows how to tell if the Xbox 360 controller is low on battery? I’ve been playing it so much that my batteries are going dead. Do you have similar issues with PS3? Ohh wait, it's not out yet. :-D 250 -
NopeUnregistered - Someperson 12.21.2005 20:54 The PS3 controllers are rechargable by using the USB port. 251 -
NowUnregistered - Someperson 12.21.2005 20:56 The funky looking PS3 controller is only a prototype. The console design is as well. Meaning that the console design could change if Sony decided to change. 252 -
Blast to the Past:to commentor 199Unregistered - Someperson 12.21.2005 21:01 The PS2 did have more processing power than the XBox but it was amingly difficuilt to develop for. It a radically differnt architecture that dvelopers had no idea to program. Plus, Sony only gave them documents but no support. Devlopers had to swallow it up. Plus the design was not flexible. If it were easier to develop for, then you know what I mean. Sony noticed this and that is why the PS3 is easy to devlop for than the PS2. Plus it is only 3 apllications harder than DirectX that is used in XBox 360 dev kits 253 -
Unregistered - DaGamer 12.21.2005 22:14 Donkey my PC is older than your trashbox, but blast it right to the middleage ;-D 254 -
YeahUnregistered - DonkeyDoo 12.21.2005 22:43 person from the middle ages would say something like that. in what way is your PC more powerful and more than a year old? ohh, you must be talking about the IBM blue Gene, sure, you got me there. ohhh I am so devastated, why O why can't the 360 beat the supercomputer, whhhhhyyyyyy? 255 -
PAUL CERULA 12.21.2005 23:46 The xbox 360 controller's power can be viewed at the top of your mini dashboard that comes up when you push the button. There's a little battery icon. Honestly you HAVE TO invest in a play and charge accessorie because you will burn through so many AA batterries if you don't. Believe me this accessorie works like a charm and is a necessity. 256 -
PAUL CERULA 12.21.2005 23:52 PROOF OF KOJIMA saying xbox 360 and ps3 to be very very close in performance 1up Episode 9 .....look for this if link doesn't work It's near the 3/4 of the episode http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3146431 Okay to further my opinion/facts on the matter you guys like one of the previous writers who deny this are only buying into the hype of the ps3. I never said they were equal just that the ps3 was only a very slightly more powerful with AI and physics cause of the cell. NOT A BIG ISSUE. The trailers from ps3 are for games NOT EVEN MADE OR PLANNED TO BE RELEASED ON PS3 LAUNCH. Come on Killzone is only finally being approved as a sony's game and MGS4 is coming out in 2007!!!! Dream some where else and take the facts of people directly in contact with the ps3 and xbox 360. They know what their talking about not you and your simplistic apetite for trailers in the great beyond This developer along with all the other ones have a unified declaration to the World. ----PS3 and Xbox 360 are marginally different 257 -
Give it a rest PaulBillGatesSucks 12.22.2005 03:54 Paul you really got to just shut up with the Kojima said blah blah blah machines only marginally different crap. I mean, you're even beginning to piss off the other xbots. Have some diginity man, you're embarassing yourself. 258 -
Thx PAUL CERULAUnregistered - DonkeyDoo 12.22.2005 09:27 Finally a helpful person. I got the play and charge kit with my bundle, but I sold it on Ebay for 20 bucks. 259 -
Who is more powerfull?Mathoss 12.22.2005 09:30 This is funny cause whaterver anybody says, developpers, sony, ms, fanboy... we wont know until the consoles are out and someone unbiase take them on a head to head test. Of course each compagny is going to say their console is the best. As per developper, producer, programmer: they are on their toes, they are not allow to have an opinion on wich is more powerfull.It is a war out there and they are staying neutral cause no one know how it will end-up. 260 -
Hmm...Unregistered - Hmm... 12.22.2005 12:53 Paul...please, I mean, really, we know youre trying as hard as you can to show us that your Xbox is as good as a PS3, but were not buying it. Oh, and any person to even imagine that a ATI 520 is more powerful than a RSX really needs help. 261 -
Unregistered - Arnold 12.22.2005 16:16 I agree with Paul I dont know whats wrong with some of the people in here they are just plain out ignorant. ps3 and the 360 are about the same get OVER IT. why should we beleive you guys over the developers what knowledge do you have over them. 262 -
ButUnregistered - Someperson 12.22.2005 18:05 But Paul Cerula keeps on posting that sh*t over and over again. It is getting annoying. 263 -
omgUnregistered - BK 12.22.2005 18:41 O MY GOD...did you just suggest that the Nvidia RSX is more powerfull than the ATi 520? Please just search on google u just posted something so wrong that......OMG!!!! 264 -
Nope.Unregistered - Someperson 12.22.2005 19:27 The 7800 512 MB graphics card came out and has a lock rate of 500 to 1700 MHz. It beats all the latest ATI graphics cards. ATI thought they have beaten Nvidia a few months ago. But Nvidia kept this graohics a close secret and released it with a vengeance. Now, Hua Sang of Nvidia said that the RSx is faster then all thr Geforce Series Graphics cards. So maybe that is why some people are inplying that RSx beats the ATI R520 or maybe it is another reason 265 -
Unregistered - Twain 12.23.2005 12:50 the gpu in the 360 is not same as r520 ati said that it will be some time before perfomance like that will come to the pc it also has embeded memory remember (glaze 3d) bit boys they were trying to bring that idea to the market years ago. the gpu for the xbox 360 was designed for that system not modified from a pc gpu. 266 -
ButUnregistered - Someperson 12.23.2005 16:46 But for people out there. The unified shaders are just another way to get power. It is speedy, but the XBxo 360 doesn't have a fsat enough bus speed to use the ubified shaders properly. 267 -
Unregistered - Dan 12.23.2005 19:25 someperson where did you hear that because this is the first time I am hearing of it .do you have link to back up that statement 268 -
360 GPU for post #267BillGatesSucks 12.23.2005 22:40 The 360 GPU has an external link speed to its CPU of 8GB/sec (4 GB/sec write + 4 GB/sec read). The RSX has an external link speed to the Cell processor of 35 GB/sec (20GB/sec write + 15 GB/sec read). 269 -
ThatsUnregistered - Someperson 12.23.2005 22:52 Thats what I have been saying saying along along. The Xbxo 360 has a too slow Bus Speed to use the unified shaders effiecently. 270 -
Unregistered - Dan 12.23.2005 23:41 268 that is wrong information check this link http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2610&p=9 271 -
Unregistered - Chase 12.24.2005 00:06 Sony's Semiconductor boss Kenshi Manabe is pretty proud of his "Cell" processor inside the PS3. At a recent meeting with analysts he boldly stated: "The Cell chip is as good as the Pentium, if not better". Sony and their partners hope to sell millions of Cell chips, and they won't all be going inside PS3. Sony hopes to have Cell inside a wide range of audio/video devices. Business Week has the full scoop, including a tidbit at the end on NVIDIA's RSX GPU, mentioning that game developers still don't have access to NVIDIA's latest and greatest: "Without the souped-up graphics chip, the machine we have is 10 times slower than the PS3 should be," says an exec at a game software maker who spoke on condition of anonymity. "The graphics chip was supposed to be ready by November. But we're still waiting." here is the link http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=9091&filterLevel=1&up=&page=2 "10 timees slower without a souped-up graphics chip" does that mean the cell chip isnt as good as they been saying 272 -
#270 and #271BillGatesSucks 12.24.2005 03:36 #270 - I thought that was the GPU to RAM access. My bad. #271 - I just finished reading a longer version of that article in a posting in the Vampire Rain story and I think you've taken it a bit out of context. Basically the article is saying despite not having the RSX chip, the devkits are performing amazingly well. 273 -
THIS IS NOT GOODUnregistered - Trevor 12.24.2005 09:28 But at this point, nobody besides Sony has any idea what the Cell will allow the PS3 to do. Game developers say they haven't seen a prototype that comes close to the blazing processing speeds and life-like graphics of the commercial-ready console Sony is promising. Though Sony declines to comment on such complaints, in November it failed to deliver on a promise to send game creators an upgraded prototype containing a graphics chip made by Santa Clara (Calif.)-based nVidia So the nVidia chip will have to save the day I dont like the sounds of this http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2005/tc20051222_242937.htm?campaign_id=search 274 -
to comment 273Havoc 12.24.2005 23:00 I would say Sony has about 2 months two get the finalized rsx graphics card to the developers, which would give developers two months to tighten up the graphics for luanch. But by looking at the MGS4 demo you would think that the ps3 hardware is finalized. "Game developers say they haven't seen a prototype that comes close to the blazing processing speeds and life-like graphics of the commercial-ready console Sony is promising" They got real time shadowing on snake, hair made all of physics, it just looks beautiful, I don't know what these developers thought Sony was promising but by looking at MGS4, thats almost close to life like graphics. I want to know exactly what developers said this if this was said at all. 275 -
Unregistered - G 12.25.2005 01:48 ^ I read somewhere that that was running at around 5fps --> bumped up to 30-60 fps 276 -
Unregistered - Gandi 12.25.2005 10:28 I heard that too make makes you wonder. 277 -
Unregistered - Stan 12.25.2005 10:43 is their any information on the rsx gpu by looks of it the cell chip isnt as good as sony is been telling us from what I have read on the ibm site .and now developers are saying its 10 times slower I think the dev kits have two 6800 ultras in sli with cell chip. this is strange just how good is this rsx chip it cant be ten times faster than two ultras 278 -
THIS IS ALL I COULD FINDUnregistered - Shimmy 12.25.2005 11:07 bit-tech.net chats with NVIDIA's David Kirk and discusses upcoming NVIDIA technology, the G70, PS3 RSX - and what the future holds for PC gamers: The graphics processor in the PlayStation 3 is NVIDIA-designed and is called RSX. How does it compare next to the 7800? "The two products share the same heritage, the same technology. But RSX is faster," said Kirk. "At the time consoles are announced, they are so far beyond what people are used to, it's unimaginable," David comments. "At the time they're shipped, there's a narrower window until the next PC architecture." In other words, RSX looks incredible now, but when it launches, there'll be a smaller time until PC looks better. However, what consoles have is a huge price advantage." 279 -
Cry BabiesUnregistered - Your Mom Loves my Cack 12.26.2005 14:02 Hahaha @ the X-Box owners crying... Evidently you CAN hear, so well in fact that you have to reply to this news with why it doesn't matter that the ps3 will demolish the 360 once it's released. lets see... hmm, faster processors, the ability to share data with just about everything, better graphics, support for the most current technology... When the ps3 is released, don't say we didn't tell you so. 280 -
^^^^Unregistered - Jack Bag 12.26.2005 16:21 hmmmmm...your just a fountain of information. Now that we know your a moron we can only guess that you have a very small wiener. My mom hates small wieners. So go sit in the corner with your e-crystal ball and f*ck off. 281 -
nowUnregistered - BK 12.27.2005 18:08 now that you guyz are disscussing this i might tell you ps3 fans this very terrible news. the 3 cores in the 360 are better than the ps3 cell for the next gen consoles and heres why. Sure the ps3 has 7 SPE's and since the 8th is for redundancy i wont include it since it makes no difference in this comparison. And of course the 360 has 3 dual threaded cores which equals 6 threads. Now before you say 7>6 keep in mind that 1) the SPE are specialized to run only one type of thing for example AI whiole the 360 is genereal purpose it could run 2 things at the same time with one core thread and in some cases if necessairy it could use 2 threads for AI while the ps3 only has one. 2) the power of the SPE cannot be compared to a core thread reasons being that they act differently but in these consoles the threads will probably prewail (if thats how you spell it) Well what does that mean? The 360's genereal purpose cores are stronger at processing different stuff like particles and AI because they work together and are general purpose. While the cell's spes are strictly for one use, like one SPE for AI and one for particles. But in games where more of one process is needed (ai for example) the 360 can let 2 threads work on it while the ps3 cant. So basically the ps3 has more limits than the 360 in processing and that makes the 360 CPU somewhat stronger. 282 -
btwUnregistered - BK 12.27.2005 18:11 to 274 the ps3 is already out of time stop saying that ps3 has more time. Games are finalized on the system since a month ago so the sytem is finalized but for w/e reason, money issues or timing or fear, the ps3 isnt being released till next year. BUT THER IS NO MORE TIME FOR CHANGING THE HARDWARE!!! 283 -
and to add to the above commentUnregistered - Alexander 12.28.2005 07:11 Yes, Snake did look good, but the rest of the scene looked poor, and badly done. It is not hard to render and run one characters A.I. anyway, let alone the fact that it was prescripted and probably done on one of sony's massive render farms then put forward as actual in game graphics. It always has been the same with sony, their games tend to have prerendered cutscenes which look amazing, these are shown to the audience of sony fans, who then go about claiming how amazing these graphics are (to me) and that there in game. Only to realise a month later when the game comes out that it looks a lot poorer. Same old same old from sony. 284 -
Unregistered - Dunno 12.28.2005 12:47 check out this forum its 4 pages long but there is some good info in it if your interested in the tech side of ps3 and 360. http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=403595 285 -
to comment 282Havoc 12.28.2005 13:18 to comment 282 What are you talking about, I said Sony has two months to get the finalized RSX cards to the developersif it is not already finalized. Did Sony personally tell you the RSX is finalized? Who Said the games were finalized?, most luanch titles are never really finished to what the developer wants and you got to be crazy if you think Sony's games are finished. The developers will work on every inch of the game untill luanch time. To comment 283 What does Konami have to do with Sony? I don't think that you've played any of the MGS games, the cutscenes are the same graphics, it's just that everything is scripted and and the camera can move anywhere. I do agree with you, that Sony shows a trailer and some believe it's in-game graphics. But it doesn't matter because the best looking trailer graphically was the MGS4 footage and thats in-game graphics. 286 -
ummUnregistered - BK 12.28.2005 14:26 the final dev kits were released and given to devs last month... 287 -
to comment 286Havoc 12.28.2005 15:33 Well BK, I really hope thats true so there will be enough hardware and software for luanch. 288 -
#284Unregistered - Walter 12.28.2005 17:09 that was a good read no fanboys and good info. 289 -
post #281BillGatesSucks 12.28.2005 19:01 BK you're cute when you're trying to sound like you know what you're talking about. The Cell can handle 18 tasks at once. Look it up. http://www.popsci.com/popsci/whatsnew/4df68ca927d05010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html 290 -
mistakeUnregistered - BK 12.28.2005 19:55 what most of you mistake is that the cell is the ps3. thats not it. the ps3 is using a cpu thats much like the cell but the power of the cell is not achieved by the ps3. look at todays pc's sure there all running on multithreads and everything now but their all called cores. Now there is a group called cell. the power of the cell is amazing but you cant simply compare the one in the ps3 and the true Cell which is still being worked upon. Now you say 18 tasks at once...hmmmm i clicked to the website and the first thing i noticed is that he says the NINE CORES can perform 18 tasks. Now there are two things wrong here. first of all we got through the discussion that the ps3 cell has 7 SPE's with one for redundancy and that makes EIGHT. hmmm why did he say nine? perhaps the cell thats being made has 9 SPE's. Second thing he said cores, while we all know they are called SPE's. He may have meant something else but from the website you show to support ur opinion the guy doesnt seem to know squat and he just read a bunch of numbers and made opinions or facs about them. though their not facts, they may be but untill we know we cant tell. 291 -
andUnregistered - BK 12.28.2005 19:56 if u look at the pic there are still only 8 spes. makes you think that what you read may not be true. and the comment that i look cute is just out of the question and plain disgusting. stick to girls dude. 292 -
to comment 290 mistakeHavoc 12.28.2005 23:31 Hmmm maybe he said there are nine cores because he added the one 64-bit Power PC processor core with the eight separate processing cores. "The prototype chip discussed Monday is comprised of one 64-bit Power PC processor core and eight separate processing cores that the companies call "synergistic processing elements, or SPEs" I think this guy does know squat http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/02/07/HNninecorecell_1.html There is only one cell, the one thats going to be in the ps3. 293 -
Unregistered - Rick 12.29.2005 12:52 In a recent interview in Edge magazine, Richard Huddy, European Developers Relations Manager for ATI, spoke a bit about the technical aspects of the Xbox360. He also mentioned the PS3 -- basically saying that the unit had serious power but the power is "brute force" power. The Xbox360 was much more "refined," he said. "A pretty powerful piece of hardware, but just not elegant." Click read more to read it for yourself. How do you think your work on the 360 measures up to PS3? I take a fairly robust view on this. The Xbox 360 GPU is designed to be a console GPU - that's what we set out to produce when we started the collaboration with Microsoft; let's build a really powerful, really flexible kind of general purpose GPU which doesn't have performance cliffs where if you do certain things suddenly the performance crashes down by a factor of two or something like that; let's have things pretty predictable and easy to work with, and let's generate about the best performance that we can- so we went for things like the unified shaders and so on. The PS3 has been designed in a quite different way because of the way the process worked. We sat down with Microsoft and said: 'This is what we think we can build', and they said: 'Yes, but what about...?' And they started picking holes in our design, so we came up with a collaborative design. They didn't put a spec in front of us and say: 'How much for this?' That definitely wasn't the dialogue - in fact that would make it more of a monologue; it would be kind of bidding on prices and so on. Instead what we have is a very collaborative design. With the PS3 my understanding of what happened is that they had three different internal hardware solutions - at one point, for example, as I understand it there was a proposal to use multiple Cell processors just to handle the graphics. And towards the end of the process, as the story goes, they took a look at the three internal tenders and decided than none of them would actually do; none of them would deliver the kind of performance and quality that games programmers could use and would make for a good cost-effective console, so they had to go out and shop around. And one of the places they shopped was Nvidia, and what Nvidia did was say: 'Well, you've got this relatively short timeframe, you've got roughly this kind of budget, I'll tell you what we'll do: we'll do you a good price on what is essentially the 7800GTX'. So that's a PC chip, and if you look at the architecture of the two consoles you can see we've done bizarre things that they haven't. We've built ten megabytes of dedicated ED RAM which knows how to antialias and so on, because that's a specific way of addressing a console's problem. It's bizarre in a PC sense but a special skill for a console builder. Whereas the PS3 has 256 meg of system memory and 256 meg of graphics memory it communicates through what is effectively a PCI express bus. It uses GDDR3 fast memory, it's essentially a PC graphics design bolted on to a Cell processor and 256 meg of fast system memory... You make it sound so unrefined! [Laughs.] Well, yeah, but the tragedy is that it is unrefined. There's a lot brute force in there - I'd be the last person to admit it, but the truth is that the 7800GTX is a pretty powerful piece of hardware, but it's not very elegant, it hasn't got the kind of: 'Well, how do we design this to be the best possible console we can build for this money?' Instead it's been put together at the end of quite a complicated process. We have two very different design processes. If Microsoft had come to us and said: 'All right, what are we going to do about this graphics chip, then? Let's sign the contract and let's go', but then we'd got two thirds through and they'd said: 'Look, you guys aren't going to deliver - now what are you going to do?' and then walked away from us, they would have ended up with a design very much like the PS3 in some essential characteristics - it would have had to use bought-in components. And our GPUs instead are custom-designed components, and that's one of the fundamental reasons why I think Xbox 360 technology is likely to outperform PlayStation 3 technology by a pretty healthy margin in the long run. So how about this one: can those E3 PS3 demos be achieved on Xbox 360? Well, why not take another combative line here? I think it's more likely that they can be realised on an Xbox 360 than they can be on a PS3. Those things are movies generated using whatever DCC software the houses had in mind. The Epic demo was running on a PC, and it was done using an early 7800 in SLI mode, so that was a high-end PC demo, but the movies were generated as movies and dressed up as: 'This is what you can expect from a PS3', but that's probably overstating what the PS3 can do a little bit. Indeed, it's well beyond what we expect the PS3 to be able to do. So I guess we'll just have to see what happens http://www.gamersreports.com/news/708/ 294 -
#290 and #293BillGatesSucks 12.29.2005 16:16 #290 - 9 cores = 1 PPE + 8 SPEs (7 in use + 1 for redundancy). Last time I checked 8+1=9. Oh, and as for the writer's credibility, the article was taken from a well known publication called Popular Science, maybe you've heard if it? And Sony's NOT going to be using the Cell in the PS3? Hmmmm, well somebody better notify Sony of that. #293 - The guy is a Relations Manager for ATI ... as in ATI who made the GPU for the 360. So, what did you expect him to say? That the PS3 is a better machine? He's just a glorified salesman for ATI who's tossing a PR sales pitch. He says the MS/ATI collaberation set out to "design a console GPU" which is partly true. But the fact that the resulting product turned out to be "bizarre in a PC sense" only illustrates that what really happened was their collaberative creative efforts to produce something specifically for the needs of a console ended up being a patch work of experiments. Hey, let's try unified shader pipelines! Oh darn, they're actually a lot weaker than dedicated pipelines and can only handle 2 Ops/cycle as opposed to the RSX that can do almost 6. Hey, we're having a problem with AA! No sweat, we'll just add a daughter die with 10 Megs of embedded ram to take care of that rather than addressing the real problem. Hey, let's make the GPU the memory controller! Oops, now there's a shared bus problem which mean tah dah bottlenecking. And the guy makes out the PS3 and RSX to be "brutish" and "unrefined" because it uses a PC like structure? I'd rather have a reliable, tried and true structure than a montage of experiments that only create more problems than they solve. 295 -
Unregistered - not from here 12.29.2005 18:48 Historically, memory bandwidth to the framebuffer has been the most significant bottleneck in GPU designs. The EDRAM in the Xenos chip, combined with its tile-based rendering architecture, allow it to do ALL the bandwidth intensive work (all the work done on the back-buffer) without using an ounce of the 22.4GB/sec bandwidth to the system RAM. 90% of the RSX's memory bandwidth will be used up by work being done on the backbuffer. 0% of the 360's memory bandwidth is used for that. How is it not helping games on the 360? Why do you think the 360 can do anti-aliasing in Kameo so effortlessly? When the PS3 actually has playable titles, I think you're in for some major disappointment. 296 -
294Unregistered - Ron 12.29.2005 19:07 "I'd rather have a reliable, tried and true structure than a montage of experiments that only create more problems than they solve. " wtf is the cell chip 297 -
294Unregistered - Ron 12.29.2005 19:12 well judging by your name I can see you are bias and close minded 298 -
Unregistered - Ron 12.29.2005 19:14 <closed> 299 -
OMGUnregistered - BK 12.29.2005 22:07 it has 7 SPEs and 1 PPE u idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!just check the specs on any website youll like!!!!!!! o my lord! 300 -
#295BillGatesSucks 12.30.2005 01:15 Okay, so what is the 360 using its memory bandwidth for then? Not being a smartass, just curious. 301 -
#296BillGatesSucks 12.30.2005 01:34 wtf is the cell chip The Cell chip isn't trying to solve problems by plugging holes in the dam, it's building an entire new dam. What bothered me about the Huddy interview was his attitude. Right off he says "The Xbox 360 GPU is designed to be a console GPU - that's what we set out to produce when we started the collaboration with Microsoft; let's build a really powerful, really flexible kind of general purpose GPU..." and he won't even acknowledge the innovative work Sony, IBM and Toshiba have done with the Cell. All he can talk about is how Sony "bolted on" a PC graphics card to the Cell and then calls it "unrefined", "brutish" and "not very elegant." Like it's some kind of Frankenstien monster. I think he'll be eating his words when he sees how much better the PS3 can handle AI and physics. 302 -
to comment 300Havoc 12.30.2005 11:53 He doesn't know the answer because it's a cut N paste from another site. 303 -
found a ps3 demoUnregistered - ps3 fanboy 12.30.2005 12:30 hi Guys ive found a short demo of a ps3 game you can play. this aparently use most of the systems potential to render the best graphics the ps3 can produce http://www.happy-christmas.co.uk/redletterdayscorporate/ happy gaming 304 -
what blatant lyingUnregistered - Nick 12.30.2005 15:03 HD standard calls for any resolution over 720p and above. That is HD, and the naming convention is supported by every HD manufacturer. There are 3, count them 3 tv's that accept 1080p connections today. Everyone else who has a high def tv is running at 1080i or 720p. Component cables can provide well over 1080p connections, but due to copywright restrictions, HDMI/HDCP connections will be required. The PS3 will have a nicer picture if you have a 1080p set, but 1080i looks pretty good as well. This shows you just how much Sony lies and tries to get you to buy into marketting hype. If they are lying about what "High Definition" means, you have to wonder what else they are lying about. 305 -
tiling #295BillGatesSucks 12.30.2005 15:56 I've done a bit of reading on the subject of tiling. The 10 megs of eDRAM on the 360's GPU has to use tiling in cases where the AA won't allow for the rendering of an entire image simply due to its size. The problem is anything using any level of AA will require tiling. This is a problem because tiling an image will complicate post rendering effects such as motion blur. The GPU can't begin to render a frame until all the information for it has been processed and if the image is tiled, then portions of the finished frame will have to be fed back into the eDRAM for post rendering effects. I think the main reason why the 360 uses tiling is because of the required minimum 720p resolution, using tiling is the only way to achieve it, otherwise games have to run at a lower resolution and be upscaled afterwards e.g. PGR3. 306 -
#305 You are incorrectUnregistered - Nick 12.30.2005 17:04 "I think the main reason why the 360 uses tiling is because of the required minimum 720p resolution, using tiling is the only way to achieve it, otherwise games have to run at a lower resolution and be upscaled afterwards e.g. PGR3." I hate it when people who have no knoweledge of the subject, or technical background, try to make a case that is way over their heads. Tiling has nothing to do with supporting a certain resolution. In this discussion, tiling is for AA purposes only. You don't need tiling to achieve any resolution, and the Xenos core could easily manage 1080p and beyond, all depending on the size of textures, color and z buffer (as well as the number of polygons). 307 -
correctUnregistered - BK 12.30.2005 17:46 yea post 306 was right the xenos can achieve 1080p. you might wonder why microsoft doesnt say that. reason being that microsoft has promised games on 1080i and 720p, that means that there will be alot of games on those two resolutions. BUT like last generation, the xbox was promised to achieve 480p which it did and i remember a few games on 720i or p. this means well seee some 360 games on 1080p and on ps3 but there will be only a few of them because most tv's dont support that high of resolution. 308 -
#306BillGatesSucks 12.31.2005 01:31 If the PGR3 engine used tiling, there would have been no problem running the resolution natively at 720p. BUT because it didn't use tiling, they had to use a smaller native resolution in order for the eDRAM buffer to perform the AA, and then upscale the resolution afterwards. If you think about it, the way it was done was probably better because as I mentioned, tiling causes problems with post render effects like motion blur which I'm pretty sure PGR3 uses. 309 -
PAUL CERULA 12.31.2005 01:41 Yes well the decision still stands. Kojima (mgs4 guy) himself declared that the ps3 and xbox 360 are almost identical in power so stop dreaming and being hyped up. ALSO PS3 WON'T BE LAUNCHED IN SPRING....Sony's bull shi... you all. C'mon guys think, no one in the video game industry outside of sony believes a spring launch can happen. You'll all see in a couple months that Sony will live up to its reputation 310 -
WhyUnregistered - Someperson 01.01.2006 13:39 Kojima said yes I think it is technically possible. Nothing more. XBox fanboys act as if it is a celebration. But guess what, ever heard of multiplatform games. Exactly. I think it came as a suprise when the Playstation 3 was going to be the most powerful system. Usaully the Playstation was never the most powerful and the XBox 1 was the most powerful last time. But it is not this time. Don't give me that hard to harnish bullsh*t. Do you see the developers whining. Maybe only Itagki or what ever his name is. But he is a XBox lover and hardly worked on the Playstation 3. Do you Ninja Theory complaining and they are a very small company. They were about to go bankrupt until Sony signed them 311 -
okUnregistered - BK 01.01.2006 15:10 thing is that kojima said that these are the platforms he likes to make games for...PC and revolution. OH WAIT i think that revolution is the most powerfull of all systems now because one developer said soo. (that was sarcasm for most of you that dont know!!) 312 -
I know rightUnregistered - Someperson 01.01.2006 17:06 The Playstation 3 is the most powerful but I never said it is light years ahead. No system is. I officially canceled my preorder for the XBox 360. Why? Well I was told by the store clerk of EB games that I won't be getting mine until December, 2006. What kind of bullsh*t is that. I have waited too long. I hate Microsoft now for not providing enough systems and completely flushing out the people who preordered including me. I hate the XBox 360 now. I will probably get one in 2007. 313 -
Unregistered - G 01.01.2006 18:49 ^ I smell bullshit. preorders that are backed up until december 2006? did I read that right, 2006? that's next year. it's hard to get an xbox360 but it isn't THAT hard. not to the point where you wait ONE WHOLE YEAR for your RESERVED console. 314 -
MeUnregistered - Someperson 01.01.2006 19:13 I don't give a fu*k what you think. I could care less. Your just some guy one the internet just like me. Oh I smell bullshit when Microsoft said that they would have enough systems cough*shortages*cough when they only shipped a few hundered thousand in America, a few hundred thousand in Europe, and a estimated 100,000 units in Japan which only sold a estimated 60,000 units in Japan. 315 -
MeUnregistered - Someperson 01.01.2006 19:13 I don't give a fu*k what you think. I could care less. Your just some guy one the internet just like me. Oh I smell bullshit when Microsoft said that they would have enough systems cough*shortages*cough when they only shipped a few hundered thousand in America, a few hundred thousand in Europe, and a estimated 100,000 units in Japan which only sold a estimated 60,000 units in Japan. 316 -
MeUnregistered - Someperson 01.01.2006 19:13 I don't give a fu*k what you think. I could care less. Your just some guy one the internet just like me. Oh I smell bullshit when Microsoft said that they would have enough systems cough*shortages*cough when they only shipped a few hundered thousand in America, a few hundred thousand in Europe, and a estimated 100,000 units in Japan which only sold a estimated 60,000 units in Japan. 317 -
thing isUnregistered - BK 01.01.2006 23:04 the only reason why there was a shortage was because of a world release that they did. but if you add the numbers there are more than the number of ps2's and xbox 1's manufactured when launched :). 318 -
oh and Unregistered - BK 01.01.2006 23:06 stop with the japan thing now guyz. the only reason why there was a bad launch selling was because of the game tastes where more towards americans. next year im sure the sells will boom with alot of anime or w.e its called games coming out for japanese audience so stop with the japan situation. 319 -
NopeUnregistered - Someperson 01.01.2006 23:33 I think it is because of the anticipation of the PS3. Hey thats just me. 320 -
Unregistered - G 01.02.2006 00:22 When did microsoft say they were going to have enough? they said the'll try. and xbox&ps2 didn't have shortages when it was launched? guess what? they did too. how do i know? i'm one of those camping ebay-sellers =). anyways, the point i was making is that you're a liar. they DID NOT tell you, you have to wait until december because the shortage and demmand isn't THAT bad. not the way you're situation says it atleast. 321 -
My first time on a PS3 forum...Unregistered - omegaheat 01.02.2006 09:28 I'd rather be a virgin. This is pathetic. All PS3 fanboys and Xbox360 fanboys alike have been sucked into a premature battle where the only side that wins will be the side with the most integration of online gaming. Microsofts Xbox-Live is without a doubt the most impressive thing that has happened to videogames since the 3D gaming. Not many people fill their living rooms up with a bunch of videogame buddies anymore. That was the old way it was done. What's with the seven controllers. I play against my family on Live all the time and nobody has to host a lan party because Live's just like being there. The infrastructure of Live is strong. Sometimes I check out these PS3 fansites just to see if I'll see something new to impress me. Not because I want to check out the competition, but because I think it's about time for the people to see something besides what was shown from last year's E3. I'm not going to come in these forums and bash the PS3 because we all have our preferences. I like exclusives for Microsoft's consoles and you guys like exclusives for Sony's consoles. Instead of doing all of the Xbox360 bashing that's going on in this forum, just vent your fustrations about why Sony keeps leaving their fanbase in the dark about a system that will be launched in probably four months or so. I'm just looking for a reason to own both, but if Sony doesn't invest money into an Xbox-Live like online community, then I have no reason to own both. The Blue-ray format is cool and all, but I think Sony should have invested it's money into adding a closed network for its fans. And that's the only bad thing I'll probably say towards Sony. I will not make childish, premature comments about any hardware that I have yet to put my hands on. I think the same should go for anyone for that matter. 322 -
FOOLSUnregistered - GEV1L 01.02.2006 10:49 Actually the x360 can display navtiley in 720p. It does upscale from 540p up to 1080i but it does do 720p navtively. ANd also, to 10mb of embedded ram is only for post processing effects like AA and AF. Thirdly the human eye cannot detect frame rates faster than 60 fps especially on lcd HDTV's since the refresh rate of all hdtv's is 60 hz. Can most of you tell me the difference between movies( which are displayed at 24 fps) and games(up to 60), Didnt think so. If you mean by sony thinking ahead like they did with the ps2 and its hard drive slot, firewire ports, etc? Most of this sh#t just wont ge used very much if at all. And yes sony is using the ps3 to push all of its products, not just tvs. So what? All companies do that. Heres another question how many people's fast ethernet ports on the computer are actually used to their potential? None if hey are not used on an internal network as the internet cannot at this point anyways(most people download at around 5mbs while your ethernet port supports of to 100 mbps. So why do we need agigabit ehternet port? For it to not be used to it's potential? Also why is it that that people seem to think that magically movies are going to look so much better at 1080P? Blue ray really doesnt mean anything for older movies, just new ones filmed with new cameras. There is only so much that can be done in terms of remastering a original print,and dvd has already brought out the limitations of what olders cameras were capable of capturing. SO reallly unless it's for new movies it doesnt mean much. Also since 2hrs of footage at 720p takes up approx 17.5 gb. What will the size of said footage at 1080P be, will you be able to get a lot of things like the whole lord of the rings trilogy on one disk(approx. 80 gig) so anyone got any idea of what that file size would be at 1080p? 323 -
Respect.Alexander 01.02.2006 11:31 The 2 above posts deserve respect. I am so glad when I hear refined and intellectual views like that on gaming. Yes the second may not be as composed and unbiased, but their points are true. Sony has included a lot of expensive and almost useless features in the PS3, yes the option is there but most people will not take advantage of it; and therefore, be paying for something they dont need. Sony has spent money on developing their new console with advances features like the gigabit ethernet, but missed out on something much more important, a uinified online service. Many say why should they pay for the service, and the answer is: because the service you are paying for is an excellent one. £40 ($60 US) is not a huge amount to pay for Live's excellent service for a year, think about it. Before you say Live is crap, actually experience for a day and you will find it to be a lot better than you thought. 324 -
AllUnregistered - Someperson 01.02.2006 12:26 All you guys are geeks and losers if you are still on these forums 325 -
AllUnregistered - Someperson 01.02.2006 12:26 All you guys are geeks and losers if you are still on these forums 326 -
AllUnregistered - Someperson 01.02.2006 12:26 All you guys are geeks and losers if you are still on these forums 327 -
#308Unregistered - Nick 01.02.2006 13:26 "If the PGR3 engine used tiling, there would have been no problem running the resolution natively at 720p. BUT because it didn't use tiling, they had to use a smaller native resolution in order for the eDRAM buffer to perform the AA, and then upscale the resolution afterwards" EDram is a relatively new concept, and I've had trouble finding the technical specifications for its use. I think, however, your concerns eclipse a greater problem in both the PS3 and Xbox 360. Edram was necessary because 22 GB/s (video memry) is not enough memory bandwidth to sustain AA, HDR or other high level effects. EDRAM takes away some of this bottleneck. Technically, all of these effects still could be performed in the video memory. This is what the PS3 is going to have to do, since it has no EDRAM. Work will have to be partitioned with system memory, but I'm not sure if that is going to be enough. Anyways, my original point is that very high resolutions can be achieved without tiling, with tiling, and all the other effects. Its just a balance between the amount of data on the screen, and the resolution. When the amount of data becomes unsustainable, then the EDRAM comes into play. Take away the Edram, and Xenos can do everything the RSX can do in regards to memory bandwidth. They both use the same cheap DDR 3. 328 -
Dont believe the hypeUnregistered - Truthseeker 01.02.2006 13:56 Someperson I thought you did not like this site? what happend to that super site you were talking about ealier?Just asking,seems like you are here alot 329 -
MeUnregistered - Someperson 01.02.2006 14:46 I only come here to inform people that they are wrong. I also study fanboys behavior. I am also a rookie programmer who comes to this site to see if anybody has any knowledge of programming so they can join my team. But now I not commin got these sites because, almost everybody is a fanboy. 2, nobody knows what they are talking about but paste from different sites, and 3, you guys are basically wasting your lives on these forums. I have no point of comming to these forums anymore. So this is my last day. But if I find somebody on these forums who are experienced in programming and encoding codes, that I will be back. Geeks and losers 330 -
360 rulesUnregistered - mike 03.18.2006 12:48 i don't understand all these ppl saying that the ps3 will be better than the 360. have you seen any gameplay footage no. and besides the ppl who say sony is better online i have a quiz for you. sony is better because? 1. they have no friends list 2. it lags all the time 3. you have to buy a piece for over 50$ that plugs into the back of the ps2. 4. not all the games support the headset. 331 -
sony liesguitar22 03.18.2006 13:24 if this guy said you were gunna win a billion dollars would you believe him lol.it's sony they lie lie lie. 332 -
The truth is hereUnregistered - In the KNOW 05.05.2006 13:26 Now, I will settle this, after reading many interviews (and watching them), analyzing the hardware etc, I have come to a conclusion. The Xbox 360 is more than capable of playing HD movies, it just isn't using the right format, AT THE MOMENT. It plans to release a HD-DVD external driver for the 360 so that people that actually want to watch movies in HD can, instead of some consumers having to pay out a hell of a lot more for something they don't want. To settle HOW movies play in HD, here it is: The movies require more disc space, so that they can store more data (being pixels etc), the Xbox 360 has trouble with DVds and it is only just possible with the games they release. It is true that the Xbox 360 has a real problem with disc space so far, but note the comment Bill Gates made many many moons ago, when referring to the 360, "This is the last disc format we will see." Now that Sony have announced their 60gb hard-drive, Microsoft have popped up with their 100gb hard-drive, shipping as standard with the consoles, a big blow to the gut of early adopters,but something tells me they won't miss out. So, we have a 100gb hard drive. Now please note that an ipod can hold 60gb in half of the size, as quite a lot is taken up by the screen etc. Then, think of how big the 360's hard drive is. It is as big as the top of the console. Imagine many GBs can be stored on something like that. So, what happens when Microsoft introduce a system that games can be loaded onto a hard drive consisting of hell knows how many GBs and sold in a case in a shop. Microsoft have a hell of a lot of space to play with, so where is this going you ask? Well, with all that space, 1080p is going to be child's play, or maybe the hardware will limit it to just 1080p. Will Microsoft thinking outside the box like this, they have a real advantage. But Sony have really gotten comfortable, and are sitting on their magic blu-ray. It will be Sony losing out in the format war, unless they join Microsoft. The hard drive format will open up endless opportunities, like more space for game, more space for more complex graphics files. FOR ALL LAZY READERS SKIP TO THIS BIT! Sony have one real problem though, their hardware. DSPs (Sony calls them ISPs) fill the cell chip, and ashamed Sony should be. DSPs are far better for movies, but their games will suffer, with a little amount of general proccessing cores (the 360 has loads of them) the games will suffer in frame rate, and as any budding PC gamer will know, to increase the frame rate, dull the resolutions. EA has recently given an interview, stating that they cannot support resolutions any higher than 720p on the PS3, because the frame rates drop dramatically. That is a real hardware issue. So, the 360 is running at 1080i+, while the PS3 is stuck at 720p because of harware issues. Now any Sony fan would say, "Well they'll fix it before launch." They won't, PS3s are already in full development, so say goodbye to your HD dreams Sony. And if they want their supposed 120fps then say goodbye to HD altogether. This will never happen of course, games will reach as high as 60fps if they're lucky, and if they do, expect no higher than 720p resoltions. What a sad, sad story. I can see many people jumping on the PC bandwagon at this point, so I say to you, the PC cannot use anti-aliasing to much effect while running on HD, and vice versa, so say goodbye to lush graphics, unless you have £600 to spend on a new graphics card, and £3000 to spend on a new PC. While we say all this, we cannot forget to feel grateful for HD, as the Nintendo Wii is not going to touch HD at all. And so I conclude that thw Xbox 360 is going to be far superior in terms of resolutions, when compared to the PS3 and Wii. All hail the Xbox 360. Add Comment |
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